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Old 06-02-2014, 10:57 AM
 
3,533 posts, read 2,170,235 times
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I was musing on the illegal immigration situation recently and I pondered: I have seen news articles stating that the populations of Germany, Russia, and some other EUish nations are in decline, due to married couples having birth rated well south of 2, when IIRC 2.1 or so is needed to maintain population parity. Now, we know the entitlement budgetary pressures due to a declining ratio of working to baby boomers and it's impact to Social Security/Medicade, et al. We also see that there seems to be a defacto conspiracy among both parties to get as many illegals into the US as possible. I wonder if this goes beyond cheap votes/cheap labor, and somewhere the leadership of both parties has in it's possession projections that show that without amnesty, we are also looking at a real population decline in about 20-30 and the devastating fiscal impacts that go along with it.


Anyone have thoughts on the matter.
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Old 06-02-2014, 02:05 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armourereric View Post
I was musing on the illegal immigration situation recently and I pondered: I have seen news articles stating that the populations of Germany, Russia, and some other EUish nations are in decline, due to married couples having birth rated well south of 2, when IIRC 2.1 or so is needed to maintain population parity. Now, we know the entitlement budgetary pressures due to a declining ratio of working to baby boomers and it's impact to Social Security/Medicade, et al. We also see that there seems to be a defacto conspiracy among both parties to get as many illegals into the US as possible. I wonder if this goes beyond cheap votes/cheap labor, and somewhere the leadership of both parties has in it's possession projections that show that without amnesty, we are also looking at a real population decline in about 20-30 and the devastating fiscal impacts that go along with it.


Anyone have thoughts on the matter.
If that were the case then wouldn't our government be increasing our legal immigration quotas? Besides, if more immigrants are needed in 20-30 years then why not wait till then? Right now we have a shortage of jobs and resources with far too many people living on the dole and we are going broke.
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:14 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
If that were the case then wouldn't our government be increasing our legal immigration quotas? Besides, if more immigrants are needed in 20-30 years then why not wait till then? Right now we have a shortage of jobs and resources with far too many people living on the dole and we are going broke.
Agreed and HOW!
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:07 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armourereric View Post
I was musing on the illegal immigration situation recently and I pondered: I have seen news articles stating that the populations of Germany, Russia, and some other EUish nations are in decline, due to married couples having birth rated well south of 2, when IIRC 2.1 or so is needed to maintain population parity. Now, we know the entitlement budgetary pressures due to a declining ratio of working to baby boomers and it's impact to Social Security/Medicade, et al. We also see that there seems to be a defacto conspiracy among both parties to get as many illegals into the US as possible. I wonder if this goes beyond cheap votes/cheap labor, and somewhere the leadership of both parties has in it's possession projections that show that without amnesty, we are also looking at a real population decline in about 20-30 and the devastating fiscal impacts that go along with it.


Anyone have thoughts on the matter.
The huge growth of poverty being imported is going to destroy social security more than anything. The impoverished illiterate illegals require trillions of dollars in government support, they can't support those large numbers of kids they have --- and also many illegals are getting up in years and they want a comfortable retirement here -- even if they never paid in a dime to social security.

Also family reunification means they're bringing in their elderly for us to support.
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:31 AM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 15,940,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
If that were the case then wouldn't our government be increasing our legal immigration quotas? Besides, if more immigrants are needed in 20-30 years then why not wait till then? Right now we have a shortage of jobs and resources with far too many people living on the dole and we are going broke.
Agreed. The US would try to increase legal immigration with taxpayers, not tax eaters. The consequence of awarding amnesty to impoverished ppl would be even further devastation to the safety net/ entitlement system due to their progressiveness. If it was simple as saying that WE NEED THEM, it would be probably the only compelling reason to allow for more illegals- which a politician could use in supporting his position.
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:45 AM
 
741 posts, read 615,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armourereric View Post
I wonder if this goes beyond cheap votes/cheap labor, and somewhere the leadership of both parties has in it's possession projections that show that without amnesty, we are also looking at a real population decline in about 20-30 and the devastating fiscal impacts that go along with it. Anyone have thoughts on the matter.
Controlled immigration flows of legally-admitted migrants were meant to feed the demand/need for labor, if I'm recalling my history lessons correctly. Particularly a younger workforce which will contribute to the economy/government coffers long before they themselves consume more and more resources. Or they were people who possessed special skills not in abundance already in this country. Cheap labor is no doubt a consideration, but not the only one. I don't think its ever been about votes for a particular party when we reference illegal aliens, because Presidents of both parties have unsuccessfully dealt with the problem for decades. The challenge is and has been how to solidify a porous border so that that controlled flow of migrants entering by land can be realized ... or substantially realized. Regarding amnesty: It's not on the table, and hasn't been since Ronald Reagan promoted amnesty and the Congress went along.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:06 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Originally Posted by Longford View Post
Controlled immigration flows of legally-admitted migrants were meant to feed the demand/need for labor, if I'm recalling my history lessons correctly. Particularly a younger workforce which will contribute to the economy/government coffers long before they themselves consume more and more resources. Or they were people who possessed special skills not in abundance already in this country. Cheap labor is no doubt a consideration, but not the only one. I don't think its ever been about votes for a particular party when we reference illegal aliens, because Presidents of both parties have unsuccessfully dealt with the problem for decades. The challenge is and has been how to solidify a porous border so that that controlled flow of migrants entering by land can be realized ... or substantially realized. Regarding amnesty: It's not on the table, and hasn't been since Ronald Reagan promoted amnesty and the Congress went along.
The promise of legalizing illegal aliens has always been about votes from mostly Hispanic-Americans as they are the group demanding it. The fact that most of the illegals here are also Hispanics just means that with an eventual path to citizenship that just means more votes for the Democrats in the future.
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Old 06-03-2014, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longford View Post
Controlled immigration flows of legally-admitted migrants were meant to feed the demand/need for labor, if I'm recalling my history lessons correctly. Particularly a younger workforce which will contribute to the economy/government coffers long before they themselves consume more and more resources. Or they were people who possessed special skills not in abundance already in this country. Cheap labor is no doubt a consideration, but not the only one. I don't think its ever been about votes for a particular party when we reference illegal aliens, because Presidents of both parties have unsuccessfully dealt with the problem for decades. The challenge is and has been how to solidify a porous border so that that controlled flow of migrants entering by land can be realized ... or substantially realized. Regarding amnesty: It's not on the table, and hasn't been since Ronald Reagan promoted amnesty and the Congress went along.
The irony being that a "secure border" is preventing the cyclic migration that happened in the 1970's and 80's - where the migrant worker returned back to their home country without the possibility of being a tax burden later on in their lives. Our own "border fence" locks them in to live (and go through life events that lessen the chance of their return) here in America. Mexicans (that have caught on that they would require foreigners to have a permit to live - or work - in their country, typically even charging fees for anyone to enter or leave) are consistently derided on this forum (despite being the leading nationality that has legally immigrated to the United States, and is close to zero of the most recent illegal influx to our country, because they are repatriated after several hours in custody), when they have shamed us by becoming better Capitalists. I even believe that the right cooperation (Mexicans developing a worker program that would be a buffer for the U.S., in addition to our own) could supplant the dependance on Chinese goods we have.

But reviewing C-D membership, we need to get our bigotry out of the way first - to stop thinking that someone is "shady-looking" because of their ethnicity, or without honor, morals, or motivation to be enough like us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The promise of legalizing illegal aliens has always been about votes from mostly Hispanic-Americans as they are the group demanding it. The fact that most of the illegals here are also Hispanics just means that with an eventual path to citizenship that just means more votes for the Democrats in the future.
Fail: Over nine million Legal Permanent Residents are eligible right now to naturalize (meaning they could immediately vote in the next election cycle), a number that is actually increasing with each passing year (Mexican Nationals are 25% of the legal immigrant population in the United States, but 30% of those eligible to naturalize). When someone has an opinion that is not reflected in reliable data (another member referring to "sky-high" birthrates comes to mind, when sources indicate that isn't true) it just makes them unbelievable.
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Old 06-03-2014, 04:01 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Perhaps one could explain why it is mostly the Democrats vying for amnesty. Perhaps one could explain why they are pandering for the Hispanic-American vote via promising an amnesty. Illegal aliens would just be future Democrats once they become citizens but again the Democrats aren't looking to the future, right? Yes, there's a fail here alright but it's not on the part of those of us who don't stick our heads in the sand and remain in denial.
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Old 06-03-2014, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Perhaps one could explain why it is mostly the Democrats vying for amnesty. Perhaps one could explain why they are pandering for the Hispanic-American vote via promising an amnesty. Illegal aliens would just be future Democrats once they become citizens but again the Democrats aren't looking to the future, right? Yes, there's a fail here alright but it's not on the part of those of us who don't stick our heads in the sand and remain in denial.
Also the current vote. Illegals tend to enjoy a solid support network. There is a reason why hispanics are the loudest voice pushing for the immigration reform bill and oppose making mandatory E-Verify a priority.
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