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Old 06-11-2014, 10:38 AM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,786,878 times
Reputation: 1215

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
The whole concept of the "illegal alien" is nothing but a legal construct, and a relatively recent one at that.

Historically, movement across the U.S.-Mexico border, in particular, was usually bi-directional. Mexicans would travel to the U.S. to work for part of the year, then return to work in Mexico for another part of the year, and so on. Relatively few people would cross the border and never go back.

Tough immigration laws changed all that. Now, people can't go back and forth to follow the work anymore. Now, once they make it across, they have to stay permanently, because crossing and recrossing has become far too risky and expensive.

You don't like the large number of illegal aliens permanently living in the U.S.? Blame tough border enforcement...
Are you saying that people from south of the border can no longer apply for work visas like they did in the 50s and 60s?

 
Old 06-11-2014, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Austin
11,141 posts, read 6,331,730 times
Reputation: 12106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmqueen View Post
Do you trust the ultraconservative Cato Institute? This is a thoughtful, informative article, not fact-free hysteria. Somewhat critical of the Obama Administration but not blind hate.

Obama
From the Cato article you referenced, "It appears, then, that President Obama’s reputation for severe interior enforcement was earned for 2009, 2010, and 2011 but is somewhat unjustified in 2012 and 2013. The Bipartisan Policy Center has an excellent report on the enormous court backlogs and other issues that have arisen due to interior immigration enforcement."

The report referenced in above statement reflects the significant change that has happened in illegal immigration during 2012 and 2103. Numerous statistical charts are available in this report to reflect the change in the last two years.

"Interior Immigration Enforcement by the Numbers"

Mar. 13, 2014
By Matt Graham

The administration has also shifted its enforcement emphasis to criminals and has escalated the use of administrative removal proceedings that authorize removals outside of traditional immigration courts. Faced with limited resources, the administration’s shift toward removing criminals and recent border crossers has been coupled with a decline in deportations of other individuals caught in the interior. As fewer deportation proceedings go through immigration courts, immigrants whose deportation is contested in court have become nearly twice as likely to win their case. Meanwhile, as immigration courts’ workload continues to increase faster than the number of judges, the backlog of immigration cases continues to grow.
 
Old 06-11-2014, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,395 posts, read 3,595,558 times
Reputation: 7773
Quote:
Originally Posted by toryturner View Post
Are you saying that people from south of the border can no longer apply for work visas like they did in the 50s and 60s?
They can, but during the 50's and 60s, the Bracero Program was still in effect, which made getting work visas much easier.

Look, the bottom line is this. "Securing" the U.S.-Mexico border in the way some people would like to see it secured is pure fantasy. Totally securing the border would mean stopping, and searching, every single car, every single truck, and every single container entering the U.S. from Mexico. It would mean interdicting every single flight from Mexico and tracking the movements of every single Mexican passenger (a lot of "illegals" come the U.S. legally and overstay their visas). It would mean building, and guarding, a virtual Maginot Line across almost 2,000 miles of open desert. The costs of such measures, in terms of money, manpower and equipment, would dwarf the costs of both Iraq and Afghanistan. And the costs would be permanent.

But even if we could do it, all that stopping and searching would cripple U.S.-Mexico trade. That would suck billions of dollars out of both the U.S. and Mexican economies. You can't have it both ways. You can't have a free northward flow of eggplants and avocados without also having a free northward flow of unauthorized workers and marijuana. The whole "debate" about border control is a big joke. It is just a tool for certain politicians to get votes.
 
Old 06-11-2014, 10:49 AM
 
32,154 posts, read 14,864,306 times
Reputation: 8604
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
The whole concept of the "illegal alien" is nothing but a legal construct, and a relatively recent one at that.

Historically, movement across the U.S.-Mexico border, in particular, was usually bi-directional. Mexicans would travel to the U.S. to work for part of the year, then return to work in Mexico for another part of the year, and so on. Relatively few people would cross the border and never go back.

Tough immigration laws changed all that. Now, people can't go back and forth to follow the work anymore. Now, once they make it across, they have to stay permanently, because crossing and recrossing has become far too risky and expensive.

You don't like the large number of illegal aliens permanently living in the U.S.? Blame tough border enforcement...
Those crossing our borders back then were picking crops. Today we have unlimited visas for those types of jobs. Illegal aliens are now taking jobs that Americans will do not picking crops for the most part. Only 3% of illegals are picking crops. We have a shortage of jobs that Americans will do so we can't have an open border policy for them to cross our border come and work here at will. They're not leaving because our government isn't forcing them to as our laws dictate. There is nothing tough about our immigration laws. In fact those from south of our border enjoy the highest quotas for legal immigration into our country.
 
Old 06-11-2014, 10:55 AM
 
32,154 posts, read 14,864,306 times
Reputation: 8604
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Lack of enforcement? We're deporting record numbers.
Nope, we are not! Obama fudged his high deportation numbers and even admitted it. Besides, he gave a stay of deportation to hundreds of thousands of them with work permits. He released many of them from prison claiming a shortage of funds to detain them. He also instructed Homeland Security not to deport any illegal aliens unless they are convicted" criminals. So you were sayin?
 
Old 06-11-2014, 10:56 AM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,786,878 times
Reputation: 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
They can, but during the 50's and 60s, the Bracero Program was still in effect, which made getting work visas much easier.

Look, the bottom line is this. "Securing" the U.S.-Mexico border in the way some people would like to see it secured is pure fantasy. Totally securing the border would mean stopping, and searching, every single car, every single truck, and every single container entering the U.S. from Mexico. It would mean interdicting every single flight from Mexico and tracking the movements of every single Mexican passenger (a lot of "illegals" come the U.S. legally and overstay their visas). It would mean building, and guarding, a virtual Maginot Line across almost 2,000 miles of open desert. The costs of such measures, in terms of money, manpower and equipment, would dwarf the costs of both Iraq and Afghanistan. And the costs would be permanent.

But even if we could do it, all that stopping and searching would cripple U.S.-Mexico trade. That would suck billions of dollars out of both the U.S. and Mexican economies. You can't have it both ways. You can't have a free northward flow of eggplants and avocados without also having a free northward flow of unauthorized workers and marijuana. The whole "debate" about border control is a big joke. It is just a tool for certain politicians to get votes.
Yes, the Bracero plan is what I remember and it worked. What I would like to see is severe fines for those who hire illegals. No automatic citizenship. There would be no need to secure the borders if there were no financial reason to come to the United States. But when financial incentives are offered by our government they are effectively opening the borders to anyone willing to take them up on that offer.
 
Old 06-11-2014, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,617 posts, read 9,511,985 times
Reputation: 8390
The Mexican-US border has the biggest income disparity of any land border on earth. Naturally we will have the biggest problem of migrants trying to cross it.
 
Old 06-11-2014, 11:02 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,736 posts, read 31,254,937 times
Reputation: 13126
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
They can, but during the 50's and 60s, the Bracero Program was still in effect, which made getting work visas much easier.

Look, the bottom line is this. "Securing" the U.S.-Mexico border in the way some people would like to see it secured is pure fantasy. Totally securing the border would mean stopping, and searching, every single car, every single truck, and every single container entering the U.S. from Mexico. It would mean interdicting every single flight from Mexico and tracking the movements of every single Mexican passenger (a lot of "illegals" come the U.S. legally and overstay their visas). It would mean building, and guarding, a virtual Maginot Line across almost 2,000 miles of open desert. The costs of such measures, in terms of money, manpower and equipment, would dwarf the costs of both Iraq and Afghanistan. And the costs would be permanent.

But even if we could do it, all that stopping and searching would cripple U.S.-Mexico trade. That would suck billions of dollars out of both the U.S. and Mexican economies. You can't have it both ways. You can't have a free northward flow of eggplants and avocados without also having a free northward flow of unauthorized workers and marijuana. The whole "debate" about border control is a big joke. It is just a tool for certain politicians to get votes.

Go after those employing the tourist, with vengeance.
Seizure of all personal and business assets, of those companies and corporations, employing the tourists.


Guess what happens.


As a business owner, as a shareholder, you are going to be keeping a keen eye on the books and those you employ.
 
Old 06-11-2014, 11:03 AM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,786,878 times
Reputation: 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
The Mexican-US border has the biggest income disparity of any land border on earth. Naturally we will have the biggest problem of migrants trying to cross it.
Do you think if the illegal immigrant march continues over the next fifty to one hundred years that Canada will tolerate it? I think not.
 
Old 06-11-2014, 11:06 AM
 
Location: The Lone Star State
8,031 posts, read 7,410,373 times
Reputation: 5040
Quote:
Originally Posted by toryturner View Post
Do you think if the illegal immigrant march continues over the next fifty to one hundred years north that Canada will tolerate it? I think not.
That settles it. Canada must be racist and hateful.
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