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View Poll Results: What should we do in the short term about the illegal immigrant children sitting in detention?
If they have American Families, let them stay 11 6.40%
Deport them immediately to Mexico (Where they crossed) 49 28.49%
Deport them immediately to their home country 103 59.88%
If they don't have American family put them in foster care in the USA 9 5.23%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,974,329 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Everify for landlords will require new legislation. That won't happen without comprehensive reform. You might be able to get it as part of a comprehensive package. Note that one is going to get massive resistance from the LL community. Similar with schools and hospitals. Note that the law does require that immigration documentation be carried but it can be requested only by immigration agents. So again you want a law change.

What are the police going to do with the illegal they apprehend? It is well known that the Immigration folk can produce as many illegals as you want at the moment. But they have to be processed and stored...and that costs lots of money....particularly as many of these folk are going to resist deportation.

Again you are welcome to hold greedy business owners accountable. But you will need a law change again and will have a very hard time writing it. Any such law is going to have strong language protecting legal Hispanics which will make such a law very difficult and highly controversial.

And what you are trying is stuff that all requires law changes or expansions none of which are possible except in the light of a comprehensive immigration reform. And that is not going to happen. And some of these laws are loaded with dangerous stuff. All of sudden every black and Hispanic family appears to be illegal and are turned down unless they provide passports.

So you really have no workable approach other than railing to the gods about how unfair it is. And if you stick to your guns we end up with 20 million illegals.
Isn't law change what we were talking about?
I a large immigration reform package isn't needed and never was. A large package is designed to do 1 thing and that is to hide large volumes of pork. Look no further than S.744. A bill that does little to address actual issues and everything to spend large amounts of money.
Why do you single out hispanics? Why would they require special protection?
What do the police do with any fugitive they apprehend? You act as if police departments are islands with no interaction with federal or state agencies.
Illegals function in this country only because we allow it. Enforce laws and what happens. We have seen it. It isn't theory. They leave. Do it on a national level.

 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,974,329 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
I heard a man on tv who was in favor of helping these illegals and to go after employers but if they are send back than we don't have to worry about the employers...

It is like what was first the chicken or the egg.

In Europe they give customers a ticket for buying fake items but they don't pick up the vendors. Without the vendors there wouldn't be buyers.

Without illegals being able to be welcomed by Pelosi and now called newcomers we wouldn't have to worry about them.

Build that wall and it will create jobs to enforce border control. The talk about drug kartels helping these illegals to come here is even worse since that gives met he feeling that many of the illegals may be related to the drug kartels and we have a major other issue on our hand.

Maybe Pelosi and Reid and Obama can take all 50 illegals in their house and pay out of pocket for them...instead of smiling and let others deal with them. Put them in the same class as Obama's daughters and see how much he will like it. Obama has a pen and can make that happen
Well that is the problem. Liberals like Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are all about everyone else sacrificing, but not themselves.
Lets have a special vote. Who wants to allow the illegals to stay. A special tax of $50.00 per week per household no exceptions will be levied to pay for it. Let's see how many vote to keep them.

Last edited by tinman01; 07-04-2014 at 03:39 PM..
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,974,329 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Everify for landlords will require new legislation. That won't happen without comprehensive reform. You might be able to get it as part of a comprehensive package. Note that one is going to get massive resistance from the LL community. Similar with schools and hospitals. Note that the law does require that immigration documentation be carried but it can be requested only by immigration agents. So again you want a law change.

What are the police going to do with the illegal they apprehend? It is well known that the Immigration folk can produce as many illegals as you want at the moment. But they have to be processed and stored...and that costs lots of money....particularly as many of these folk are going to resist deportation.

Again you are welcome to hold greedy business owners accountable. But you will need a law change again and will have a very hard time writing it. Any such law is going to have strong language protecting legal Hispanics which will make such a law very difficult and highly controversial.

And what you are trying is stuff that all requires law changes or expansions none of which are possible except in the light of a comprehensive immigration reform. And that is not going to happen. And some of these laws are loaded with dangerous stuff. All of sudden every black and Hispanic family appears to be illegal and are turned down unless they provide passports.

So you really have no workable approach other than railing to the gods about how unfair it is. And if you stick to your guns we end up with 20 million illegals.
Let me ask you a simple question.
How will an amnesty solve our illegal immigration problem?
I mean since you don't favor change in legislation or at the very least feel it can't be done.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:39 PM
 
4,511 posts, read 2,108,392 times
Reputation: 5037
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattClyde View Post
You lot are sickening. These people are children, let them stay. They risked their lives to leave their homes in whatever crapsville town they came from in central america to try and at least get a sniff of the possibility of living the American Dream. That makes them far more American than any of you white trash hicks who were just lucky enough to come out of your mothers' vagina in the richest country in the world.

Assuming most in this thread are Christian, you guys are an embarrassment to Jesus Christ and everything he stood for.


And how many are you taking responsibility for? Answer: 0

The Lord helps those who help themselves. We have over 4.6 million individuals, many waiting for several years, to immigrate to this country legally. Probably 50% or more are educated and can make a profound impact on our nation with their skills and expertise. Now we though them all to the wayside because we have to deal with millions of illegals, many who have no skills and would be a burden to society.

I'm very much a Christian but enough is enough. My family has gone from middle class to lower middle class in the span of 3 years and many others are in similar predicaments. We can't take care of our own in need and now you want to save the world? The American dream is dead for many Americans but you want to give illegals a chance at it.

Liberals , in the name of Christianity, want to help everyone out and be the Saviors, but not at a cost to them but at a cost to everybody else.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,974,329 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731 View Post
And how many are you taking responsibility for? Answer: 0

The Lord helps those who help themselves. We have over 4.6 million individuals, many waiting for several years, to immigrate to this country legally. Probably 50% or more are educated and can make a profound impact on our nation with their skills and expertise. Now we though them all to the wayside because we have to deal with millions of illegals, many who have no skills and would be a burden to society.

I'm very much a Christian but enough is enough. My family has gone from middle class to lower middle class in the span of 3 years and many others are in similar predicaments. We can't take care of our own in need and now you want to save the world? The American dream is dead for many Americans but you want to give illegals a chance at it.

Liberals , in the name of Christianity, want to help everyone out and be the Saviors, but not at a cost to them but at a cost to everybody else.
Pretty much.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:42 PM
 
Location: East Coast
673 posts, read 555,823 times
Reputation: 642
Angry Close the borders and send them back now!

:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
LOL..we just opened a "family" center in NM..the Border Patrol Training Center.
I guess with the hands off catch and release program the Border Agents don't need any training.

And never mind what it's costing us, Obama just promised over $250 million to this countries to try to keep their people from coming here !!!!

Tell me again how we have no money for our Vets...

US to open immigrant family detention center in NM
New detention facilities will be opened to house immigrant families caught crossing the border illegally amid a surge from Central America, the Obama administration said Friday.

The first will be a 700-bed family detention facility at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the Homeland Security Department said. The training center is home to the Border Patrol's training academy.
-Happy Texan, EXCELLENT POINT! Why aren't we using this money to house, rehabilitate, and cross-train our DEVOTED Americans who have given up so much in service to our country? What an INSULT and a travesty that the illegals already here as well as the illegals amassing at and crashing our borders are given food, housing, medical care, transportation, education, and will be contributing to the ultimate DEFICIT of monies paid out to these illegals over their lifetime? To the tune of over $9 TRILLION dollars. I'll keep on saying it...help our OWN first! CLOSE THE BORDERS NOW!!!

(From - Reuters - http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN0E814T20140528 ):

"The flow is expected to grow. The number of unaccompanied, undocumented immigrants who are under 18 will likely double in 2015 to nearly 130,000 and cost U.S. taxpayers $2 billion, up from $868 million this year, according to administration estimates."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
It gets me how few people in this thread seem to know that our U.S. law prohibits the Department of Homeland Security from deporting these kids the minute they get here if they are not from Canada or Mexico. They have to be turned over to Dept. of Health and Human Services to wait for a deportation hearing. We are scrambling to take on more immigration lawyers to help facilitate the process but there is no quick and easy solution and its a waste of time to think otherwise. In the meantime, these are human beings that we can't turn our backs on and still call ourselves a morale and Christian nation.
Wayland, being "a morale and Christian nation" has NOTHING to do with this. If it did, then my statement above gives more credence to the fact that we have to support and take care of our own people, first...ESPECIALLY our young, maimed veterans. To put it in the most basic and simplest way, "put your oxygen mask on FIRST, and only THEN help your child or seatmate put theirs on next." (the seatmate being OUR LEGAL US CITIZENS!)

I don't mind a "LEG UP" to help these people, but do NOT support a "FREE RIDE". Offer advice (only!) to those countries sending their people our way.

-You also still haven't answered my previous post question...WHEN does this stop? Is there a tipping point? (We've surpassed that now, anyway.) What about the poor children in war-torn Africa and the Middle East? Certainly, based on your posts, then we, to be FAIR and help ALL of these people, should be flying in each and every woman and child living/starving in refugee camps or running for their very lives every day from the ISIS and Syrian rebels! What do we do about them? Or, is it just a matter of proximity, in that the people from Mexico and Central America are closer? You do not provide any cogent rationale to support any of your posts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Like I said in the illegal immigration forum, they should be declared abandoned and put up for adoption in the US. If they do not get adopted, they should be forced back to their countries.
-That's one possible adjunct solution to this problem. If we closed our border in the first place, they would just be sitting on the other side of the fence- so let Mexico take care of it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by i_love_autumn View Post
I'd like to see what all the Neo-Con Right Wing Extremists would like to do to/with those kids,but of course they would never answer 'honestly'! What would their idol/leader Rush Limbaugh do with them?
- Why don't you contact him and find out? For that matter, each and every one of us should be writing our Congressmen to ask this very question...and include your own solutions to this problem!
Also, why do you persist on putting a silly political barb or label in your posts? Why don't YOU think about it, and come up with some rational ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
No....our government made this mess.
- Yes, as well as apathetic and non-informed voters who got these people (on BOTH sides) elected in the first place! Regardless of who cause this mess...it just may be up to us, "the people", to come up with solutions, protest, and refuse to allow these illegals into their towns! Turn the busses around! Demand that your tax dollars NOT be used for these illegals! Actually, it may be time for us hard-working citizens to organize and change our current policies with regard to illegals. Our government is not doing what it takes - they're afraid to "anger" their perceived "base". We need to show them this is NOT what we want!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
Yes...invaders.....many armed.
-I think most of us are becoming quite weary of pithy, sarcastic, and non-productive posts like this. Actually, on one hand, you may be correct. There have been gang-affiliated teens who have come over with the mass of other children, fully knowing they won't be turned away.

(From - TEEN GANG MEMBERS ENTERING AS PART OF CHILD SURGE | Soldier of Fortune Magazine):

"According to a report by NationalReview.com, two National Border Patrol Council leaders in different locals have reported instances where CBP agents have caught minors with gang tattoos, including those for the notorious gang MS-13. However. Rather than deporting the known gang members, the government is instead taking them to family members already in the United States."

(From - Patterico's Pontifications » Are the Cartels Using the U.S Government to Deliver Their Footsoldiers Into the United States?

The article entitled "Are the Cartels Using the U.S Government to Deliver Their Footsoldiers Into the United States?" - 6/14/2014:

" The answer is “yes.” As bad as the situation at the Texas border seems, it’s worse than you think. Many of the “children” being given a free pass into the U.S. are gang members:
Border Patrol officials struggling to keep up with the increasing number of minors illegally crossing the Mexican border are not turning away persons with known gang affiliations. Chris Cabrera, vice president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 3307 in the Rio Grande Valley, explained that a Border Patrol agent he represents helped reunite a teenage gang member with his family in the United States. Cabrera notes the young member of Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13), a transnational criminal gang, had no criminal record in the U.S., but asks, “If he’s a confirmed gang member in his own country, why are we letting him in here?”

And:

"Art Del Cueto, president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 2544 in Tucson, says agents who recognize the gang-affiliated tattoos of minors crossing the border must treat them the same as anybody else. He says these people are afforded the same rights provided to anyone crossing the border."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
IMO, they should have to prove it because I am willing to bet that the majority if any aren't escaping violence. They have been told to say that so that they will be considered to be refugees. It is a mess and it will be take its toll on the American pocketbook, schools and healthcare systems.
Very true! The Heritage Foundation cites that Education is "liberally" given to any illegal child...and this is the most expensive portion of the $24,000+ COST that each illegal alien family garners from direct aid from our dear old U.S. Government.

(From: Cost of Unlawful Immigrants to the U.S. Taxpayers )
Article: The FiscalCost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer - May 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, however, I am a human being. Most of these children have come from Central American countries where their chance of reaching adulthood are very poor. Countries like Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua are the worst of the bunch. I would separate these children by what countries they come from and age, if they come from a country such as Mexico, send them home, if they are over the age of 15, and come from Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua send them home, if they are 14 and younger and come from Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua then we should work on finding homes for them in this country, through the foster parent program.
No. It should NOT be our problem. Send them all back immediately! This crisis trumps our current laws, that didn't predict this scale of the illegal alien problem. Our government should have a "crisis meeting" and enact an immediate bill to do so. Also, for the reasons why, refer to my responses and references quoted here in my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpaddy View Post
Unless we're going to create kill-zone where we shoot trespassers, the military is ill-trained, ill-equipped, and ill-suited to deal with the immigration problem. If we don't have enough border patrol agents, let's hire and train more of them. It's 19 weeks of training that, for the most part, is different than the training most of our military people have.
Great idea, in addition to other solutions. Our first priority should be to close the border NOW. Send the illegals and illegal children to Mexico immediately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; laws CAN be changed and WILL be changed. More and more people are getting real mad over this whole mess.
AGREE! What suggestions do you have to "organize and change" our current laws?

Finally, from the Heritage Foundation (multiple articles) about illegals, and their multi-layered cost to the US now and in the future (Note- these figures were calculated from data collected by 2010, and are considered very low estimates):

"After 13 years, unlawful immigrants would become eligible for means-tested welfare and Obamacare. At that point or shortly thereafter, for­mer unlawful immigrant households would likely begin to receive government benefits at the same rate as lawful immigrant households of the same education level. As a result, government spending and fiscal deficits would increase dramatically."

***RIGHT NOW EACH ILLEGAL FAMILY COSTS US $14,387- $25,000/HOUSEHOLD.

*****In aggregate terms, illegal alien households are costing us it's a total of about $54.5 Billion!!!

"Atthe end of the interim period (after current amnesty laws stipulate), unlawful immi­grants would become eligible for means-tested welfare and medical subsidies under Obamacare. Average benefits would rise to $43,900 per household." (about $22,700 per recipient).

"**Over a lifetime, the former unlawful immigrants together would receive $9.4 trillion in government benefits and services.

So!!! Do you think it's time to protest and change this? Please - no sarcastic, flip comments. Try to come up with some honest and researched solutions!!! I'm mad as h**l. Are you???
-Dandi
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:48 PM
 
8,063 posts, read 3,664,798 times
Reputation: 2449
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Start with Mandatory E-verify for all employees and future employees. Make the penalties harsh for both employer and fraud. This will thin the herd a bit. It is a start. There is very good reason why illegals and their advocates are against E-Verify. Expand E-Verify to landlords.
Allow schools and hospitals to report individuals who are suspected illegals. The law says that if you are a permanent resident you must carry your green card at all times. No card, no ID, make the call.
Allow local police departments and states to police their own territory. These are all small changes and relatively inexpensive. The challenge isn't to try and deport 11 million illegals. It is to show them that it is just too difficult for 11 million illegals to find work or make a living. It is also to hold the greedy business owners accountable. As Businesses take a hit more and more will stop the practice rather than face huge fines and jail time.
To talk about capitulating before at least trying will only encourage more illegals. Obama's talk about legalizing dreams proves this. He may as well have rolled out a welcome mat saying come one come all.
Enforce current laws and secure the Border.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:57 PM
 
25,377 posts, read 37,710,898 times
Reputation: 13298
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Well that is the problem. Liberals like Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are all about everyone else sacrificing, but not themselves.
Lets have a special vote. Who wants to allow the illegals to stay. A special tax of $50.00 per week per household no exceptions will be levied to pay for it. Let's see how many vote to keep them.
I 2nd that!
 
Old 07-04-2014, 04:04 PM
 
11,627 posts, read 5,597,585 times
Reputation: 9944
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattClyde View Post
You lot are sickening. These people are children, let them stay. They risked their lives to leave their homes in whatever crapsville town they came from in central america to try and at least get a sniff of the possibility of living the American Dream. That makes them far more American than any of you white trash hicks who were just lucky enough to come out of your mothers' vagina in the richest country in the world.

Assuming most in this thread are Christian, you guys are an embarrassment to Jesus Christ and everything he stood for.
Here you claim to be "Christian" yet you are engaging in vile name-calling and making your own racist stereotypes. I love how you assume that everybody who is against illegal immigration are "white trash hicks".

Actually, Jesus expected his followers to obey the laws of the land and to render unto Caesar that which is his.

All that said, since you claim to be a good Christian, if you haven't done this yet, get in touch with the government and tell them that you want to foster a dozen or more of these kids.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 04:16 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,241,082 times
Reputation: 5400
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Isn't law change what we were talking about?
I a large immigration reform package isn't needed and never was. A large package is designed to do 1 thing and that is to hide large volumes of pork. Look no further than S.744. A bill that does little to address actual issues and everything to spend large amounts of money.
Why do you single out hispanics? Why would they require special protection?
What do the police do with any fugitive they apprehend? You act as if police departments are islands with no interaction with federal or state agencies.
Illegals function in this country only because we allow it. Enforce laws and what happens. We have seen it. It isn't theory. They leave. Do it on a national level.
Sorry I see very little objectionable in S744 other than your side does not want anything that provides legality to the illegals. The money spent is pretty much all on border security and ICE and little else. You don't want to increase border security?

Hispanic would need special protection in that the laws being proposed would be easily used and will certainly be used to discriminate against Hispanics. Those who wish to do so will simply presume that all Hispanics are illegals and force them to prove otherwise. That ain't how it works.

Police either hold or pass on those they capture. There is no remaining capacity in the system. There is no where to put them in either federal or non federal lock ups. And there is no money to pay to store them if you found the space.

We have now benn decades waithing for the laws we have to chase them all away. Did not happen. And for decades for new laws to pass to chase them away. Did not happen. And now we are going to wait more decades, while more enter, for new laws that will fix all this.

What is the term for one who continues to try and try and try that which does not work?

There is simply no cure for 11 million illegals. And if you folk stick to your guns we will end up with 20 million.
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