U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: What should we do in the short term about the illegal immigrant children sitting in detention?
If they have American Families, let them stay 11 6.40%
Deport them immediately to Mexico (Where they crossed) 49 28.49%
Deport them immediately to their home country 103 59.88%
If they don't have American family put them in foster care in the USA 9 5.23%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:40 PM
 
11,543 posts, read 5,527,796 times
Reputation: 9891

Advertisements

The trouble is that you think that "something reasonable" involves amnestying illegals. You want us to roll over, play dead and wave the white flag of surrender.

Once again---why do you think that we owe illegal aliens amnesty?

Do you think that legal immigrants are chumps for obeying our immigration laws and patiently awaiting their turn to come here, with some waiting years in refugee camps? Do you think that they, too, should have come here illegally and demanded amnesty?

Illegals were given amnesty 28 years ago. When it was enacted, democrats promised that the border would be secured, no illegal would be able to find work and that there would never be another amnesty again. They reneged on all those promises.

Do you honestly believe that should this nightmare of a so-called "immigration reform" bill were to pass, that the borders would be secured, illegals will never again find work and that there never will be another amnesty? If so, then I have some oceanfront property in AZ to sell to you.

Do you have children? If so, have you thought about the future of this country if we were to amnesty millions of functionally illiterate people? Do you really think that we would be able to do proper background checks on any of them?

Did you know that this bill is nothing more than amnesty? An illegal could be getting paid under the table for 20 years and all would be forgiven with a $5000 fine. If an American or legal immigrant didn't pay taxes for 20 years, s/he would be sent to jail and made to pay full restitution. Also, in this bill, businesses would be encouraged to hire newly amnestied illegals over American citizens or legal immigrants because they won't have to enroll the newly amnestied in Obamacare. All gang members have to do is swear that they've given up gang activity and they get amnesty. Never mind that no one is going to check to see if they keep their word.

And you think that we should amnesty everybody and you say that anyone who wants to make illegals self-deport is "dull".

 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,895,723 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
We have been using existing laws and the new laws we are willing to make since 1986. See the progress made?

Contrary to the views often expressed here there is no will to do anything to deport the existing illegals. And after 28 years you have to be kind of dull to think it is going to occur.

And failure to do something reasonable means simply the problem gets worse over the next years.

So stick to your guns and get 20 million...
Contrary to the views of pro-illegals rewarding illegals will only make the problem worse. As it did after the 1986 amnesty.
Go after what draws illegals and you won't have many to deport. Seize the assets of illegals caught to help offset the costs. Hit illegals where it hurts and they will gladly leave rather than loosing all they have gained.
Go after the employers and hammer them and they will abruptly change their practices.
Why does manufacturing fear OSHA inspectors? I work in a factory and I can tell you that OSHA inspectors are feared by management. Because the laws are enforced and the penalties severe. The idea of enforcing law is not a new concept. It actually works. After the first few try to escape punishment and fail others fall in line.
Illegals will be no different.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:41 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,156,757 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
No we have not. Illegals have not been deported, there has been very little enforcement of the border itself and now whatever did exist has been completely erased.

How about we cut off all welfare handouts to all illegals first. Billions of dollars immediately saved. Then we go after the employers of illegals -- $10,000 per illegal per year for individuals who hire them. $100,000 per illegal per year they've been working for corporations. That will bring in a lot of the money it would take to put the illegals on ICE buses and drop them off at the border.

In fact Greyhound buses aren't even full and cost only $35 per passenger from Phoenix to El Paso -- a 7 hour drive -- so if all seats are filled, it should cost even less per illegal for a 7 hour trip to the border.
You have to change the law. You have seen how that works over the last 28 years. You don't understand what that means?

You can also find a daisy and pluck the pedals with the last making all the illegals go away. That solution will work as well as your above.

And the really awful thing is you continue to do this even though you know it makes things worse....
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:45 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
You have to change the law. You have seen how that works over the last 28 years. You don't understand what that means?

You can also find a daisy and pluck the pedals with the last making all the illegals go away. That solution will work as well as your above.

And the really awful thing is you continue to do this even though you know it makes things worse....
The laws are actually fine -- they just have not been enforced especially in the past few years.

The law requires you have proper documentation when coming into the USA. Try it sometimes if you're an English speaking American trying to re-enter the US. You must show your passport or you will have problems.

There are many ways to come here legally -- check out the many available visas out there.

There are already laws allowing for the deportation of those who simply choose to break the laws and sneak over. These illegals coming in now should be stopped at the border itself, they haven't the documents permitting them entry.

The only new law we really need is a law that requires the existing laws be enforced -- if you have no permission to be here -- then out you go and you get a 10 year ban on legal entry. That should be made a permanent ban but the existing law is adequate enough.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:47 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,156,757 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Contrary to the views of pro-illegals rewarding illegals will only make the problem worse. As it did after the 1986 amnesty.
Go after what draws illegals and you won't have many to deport. Seize the assets of illegals caught to help offset the costs. Hit illegals where it hurts and they will gladly leave rather than loosing all they have gained.
Go after the employers and hammer them and they will abruptly change their practices.
Why does manufacturing fear OSHA inspectors? I work in a factory and I can tell you that OSHA inspectors are feared by management. Because the laws are enforced and the penalties severe. The idea of enforcing law is not a new concept. It actually works. After the first few try to escape punishment and fail others fall in line.
Illegals will be no different.
The 1986 amnesty was to be followed by a rigid enforcement of the immigration laws. Never happened. Both Republicans and Democrats ignored the whole thing and we started a new wave.

We could easily do that again. But hopefully will not again commit the same error.

All takes new laws and costs money. You have no ability to pass new laws or spend money.

Employer laws simply force the illegals off the legal payroll. I have shown you repeatedly how well that works in Las Vegas. But you won't believe it until you repeat it for yourself.

We have been on this course for 28 years. We have to do it differently or we will soon have 20 million.

Is that what you guys really want? Twenty Million?
 
Old 07-04-2014, 03:50 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
The 1986 amnesty was to be followed by a rigid enforcement of the immigration laws. Never happened. Both Republicans and Democrats ignored the whole thing and we started a new wave.

We could easily do that again. But hopefully will not again commit the same error.

All takes new laws and costs money. You have no ability to pass new laws or spend money.

Employer laws simply force the illegals off the legal payroll. I have shown you repeatedly how well that works in Las Vegas. But you won't believe it until you repeat it for yourself.

We have been on this course for 28 years. We have to do it differently or we will soon have 20 million.

Is that what you guys really want? Twenty Million?
There are over 30 milion here illegally.

Okay -- so you think the non-enforced laws aren't working -- exactly what do you propose?

I've already said deportation would work and it would save trillions of dollars. You apparently don't think that works -- so what works?

And keep in mind -- the DACA amnesty has created one big royal mess with children now being smuggled in at a level unimagined. Amnesty doesn't work -- that's why Reagan really goofed up.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 04:01 PM
 
11,543 posts, read 5,527,796 times
Reputation: 9891
Ivoc thinks that since no one is enforcing our immigration laws and also thinks that enforcement will never happen that we should roll over, play dead and wave the white flag of surrender and just amnesty the whole bunch. After all, it's easier than fighting for positive change

I could easily sit back and do nothing because, after all, I'm getting older and probably won't see just how bad things will become if we cave into amnesty. However, what keeps me going is my child and grandkids. I worry about what this country will be like for them. So...I'm regularly writing to my rep and senators. Illegal immigration is the one issue that motivated me to get out and join a group of protesters. By nature, I'm shy but I found the courage and strength to talk to local reporters who were covering our protest and even gave them my name. I donate money to groups who are working to stop illegal immigration and amnesty. So, I walk the walk.

I hope and pray that this country will expel illegals by using attrition through self-deportation, secure our borders and never again even think of amnesty.

Should this fail to happen, at least I can look at my child and grandkids and tell them that I did all that I could do to stop it.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 04:23 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,156,757 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Ivoc thinks that since no one is enforcing our immigration laws and also thinks that enforcement will never happen that we should roll over, play dead and wave the white flag of surrender and just amnesty the whole bunch. After all, it's easier than fighting for positive change

I could easily sit back and do nothing because, after all, I'm getting older and probably won't see just how bad things will become if we cave into amnesty. However, what keeps me going is my child and grandkids. I worry about what this country will be like for them. So...I'm regularly writing to my rep and senators. Illegal immigration is the one issue that motivated me to get out and join a group of protesters. By nature, I'm shy but I found the courage and strength to talk to local reporters who were covering our protest and even gave them my name. I donate money to groups who are working to stop illegal immigration and amnesty. So, I walk the walk.

I hope and pray that this country will expel illegals by using attrition through self-deportation, secure our borders and never again even think of amnesty.

Should this fail to happen, at least I can look at my child and grandkids and tell them that I did all that I could do to stop it.
No you did not. Most of the 11 million is a lost cause. That is because we have an immigration regulating function capable at most of handling 500,000 illegals and we have 11 million. So you got two choices...reduce the illegals to 500,000 or preferably a good bit less or staff an immigration function that can handle 11 million. And even if you were willing to do that the situation has become so integrated into the society that it may not work. What do you do with the 2 or 3 million US citizen children for instance? And after you build this huge organization to handle the 11 million what do you do with them when the 11 million is down to a few hundred thousand?

Self deportation is a right wing myth. In my Las Vegas there are virtually no big on the books employers yet the illegals thrive. And mostly off the books.

Some here are going to ban rentals...A local regulation with no real federal hooks. And it is going to be tightly resisted everywhere the illegal population is high. You are basically trying to put people out of business to advance political aims...a neat thing for the right.

As far as the 11 million are concerned the only rational thing is see how quickly we can convert them into tax paying Americans.

And in the process try and seal off the entries so they are not followed by the next group.

My children have reached their fifties so they have done what they will. And their children will be fine likely still using illegal gardeners and nannies as my generation did.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 04:39 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,156,757 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
There are over 30 milion here illegally.

Okay -- so you think the non-enforced laws aren't working -- exactly what do you propose?

I've already said deportation would work and it would save trillions of dollars. You apparently don't think that works -- so what works?

And keep in mind -- the DACA amnesty has created one big royal mess with children now being smuggled in at a level unimagined. Amnesty doesn't work -- that's why Reagan really goofed up.
I think you could make deporting work. All you need is an immigration force 10 or 12 times bigger than the one we have. And to build such a force...8 to 10 years? And then in four or five we could probably have the illegals down to a few hundred thousand. But now we have what? 200,000 employees? 60 billion budget? Now what? Lay them all off?

The children have nothing to do with DACA. That is a 1992 law which was just discovered by a particular set of people as a way to beat the US system. And it works. If we did not however have an overloaded Immigration system it would not or would be a minor hiccough. It is the fact that the system already had a two year backlog that makes it play.

You folk lack the necessary backing to get anything through the system with out comprehensive immigration reform. Period. There is no option available that will change that. So you have two real choices. Make the best deal you can or block any deal. Right now you block with the outcome that the illegal immigrant population will rise to new levels if any significant stress occurs in Mexico. It may not...but that will just leave the existing level. So with your present strategy you get what we see with lots of downside potential. If we make a deal we have a good shot at limiting the illegals to those on board. Worse case we could end up in the same place as the no deal route...but there is a shot at a better outcome.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 04:40 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
No you did not. Most of the 11 million is a lost cause. That is because we have an immigration regulating function capable at most of handling 500,000 illegals and we have 11 million. So you got two choices...reduce the illegals to 500,000 or preferably a good bit less or staff an immigration function that can handle 11 million. And even if you were willing to do that the situation has become so integrated into the society that it may not work. What do you do with the 2 or 3 million US citizen children for instance? And after you build this huge organization to handle the 11 million what do you do with them when the 11 million is down to a few hundred thousand?

Self deportation is a right wing myth. In my Las Vegas there are virtually no big on the books employers yet the illegals thrive. And mostly off the books.

Some here are going to ban rentals...A local regulation with no real federal hooks. And it is going to be tightly resisted everywhere the illegal population is high. You are basically trying to put people out of business to advance political aims...a neat thing for the right.

As far as the 11 million are concerned the only rational thing is see how quickly we can convert them into tax paying Americans.

And in the process try and seal off the entries so they are not followed by the next group.

My children have reached their fifties so they have done what they will. And their children will be fine likely still using illegal gardeners and nannies as my generation did.
How is self-deportation a myth? They essentially "self-deported" from their own countries where they know the language and culture and are legal. They will leave when conditions here aren't so much to their liking. If they're not given food stamps and housing vouchers and completely free health care, how many illegals do you think would want to stay here and pay our enormous hospital bills when they have national health care back home that they can afford? Without food stamps, how is an illiterate illegal going to afford $9 a pound beef?

Cutting them all off welfare would be a very good start -- you get rid of the most useless illegals that way, the ones costing us money. Then go after the employers of illegals -- no one is going to care that those greedy cheap labor types are socked with big fines. Those illegals might work but they're committing identity theft and felony document fraud -- they need to go and they cost us jobs.

Then there may still be some illegals left. They may lay low enough and manage to work off the books not committing felony document fraud and not committing other crimes like driving without licenses and insurance.

It's like any other criminals -- enforcement is never all or nothing -- just because you can't deport all 30 million that are here doesn't mean you can't deport them as they make their presence known and you can certain cut them off the food stamps, WIC and other government handouts that are the real reason many are here. No one says we can't catch and punish rapists just because we can't catch and punish them all. No one says let everyone fail to pay income taxes just because some will manage to never pay them and not get caught.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top