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As you said the laws haven't been enforced. That means no real attempt has been made at driving them out.
Darn. You seem rational but insist on your right to misquote me. i DID NOT SAY THE LAWS HAVE NOT BEEN ENFORCED. i said quite clearly they have no teeth. That is there is nothing that can be enforced. And that is not going to change. The law says is it a crime to "knowingly" hire an illegal. And you are not going to get rid of the "knowingly". And that makes it a very weak law.
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How does granting an amnesty help the problem? How does rewarding illegals help the problem?
Ok we do amnesty then what? Then we rinse and repeat.
Or
The people speak and they are especially with this latest surge and we elect politicians who will enforce the law, who will act. 1 thing a politician wants more than illegal wants amnesty is re-elected. That is the power.
We do legalization (not amnesty) simply to reduce the problems within the reach of the resources we have available to solve it. We are simply incapable of handling 11 million illegals. So we reduce it to a few hundred thousand and then enforce it hard. The difference is we have 20 or 30 times the effective staff and resources to contain the problem we had before.
We don't amnesty as we wish to keep maximum pressure upon the illegals to do good and get themselves fiscally sound rather than an easy access to the welfare system. Eventually full rights and permanent resident status...but some years out.
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Obama had it made. We fired the GOP and he wasted it by not listening to the people.
The immigration issue has enjoyed years of Obama sugar coating it. Parading engineer on stage and representing her as the average illegal. great marketing has delivered results. The reality is the average illegal is his aunt. That is who he should parade on stage and say this is the face of illegal immigration. If he were even semi honest he would.
And I think the problem you have is you think the issue of more importance to us all and to Obama than it actually is. Mostly we don't care a lot. It is not an issue than can motivate a single issue voter. So it is always going to be a side issue.
And that in fact guarantees that all the special interest groups will be able to play a role without fear of reprisal from a tsunami of voters on the issue. That in turn says nothing that deals with anyone harshly is going to get to first base anymore to the home plate.
No you did not.
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I most certainly did and will continue to do!
And I will continue to push for attrition through self-deportation.
Just because you have no respect for our immigration laws, does NOT give you the right to belittle and denigrate those who want our laws enforced and care about the future of our country.
Ivoc also writes:
My children have reached their fifties so they have done what they will. And their children will be fine likely still using illegal gardeners and nannies as my generation did.
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Speak for yourself! Just because you think it's okay to use "illegal gardeners and nannies" and you set a bad example for your kids who did the same, do not assume that the rest of us behave in the same way.
We take care of our own yard and we raised our own child. We also make sure to not hire any companies who use illegal alien labor.
Another thing that actually works and i've seen it work is deporting them. One of my illegal neighors got deported when they found him selling pot outside some bar, he came right back within 3 days, he got deported again when a police recognized him and he came right on back. Then he got deported again -- but they held him in that Otero detention center for months before sending him back -- but when they sent him home that time, they took him to another part of the border at least 1000 miles away. Even though he was first boasting that he would be back, he hasn't made an appearance yet and some say he's back in Juarez living with relatives and probably working at a maquila.
If you make it less convenient for them, they do think twice.
What did it cost? What is the cost of incarceration at a detention center.
So for say $50,000 they got him to stay in Mexico. So for a mere 550 billion dollars we can get rid of the 11 million? Let's see at the rate at which we spend money on ICE that will take 110 years and the illegals will all be gone.
Ivoc thinks that since no one is enforcing our immigration laws and also thinks that enforcement will never happen that we should roll over, play dead and wave the white flag of surrender and just amnesty the whole bunch. After all, it's easier than fighting for positive change
I could easily sit back and do nothing because, after all, I'm getting older and probably won't see just how bad things will become if we cave into amnesty. However, what keeps me going is my child and grandkids. I worry about what this country will be like for them. So...I'm regularly writing to my rep and senators. Illegal immigration is the one issue that motivated me to get out and join a group of protesters. By nature, I'm shy but I found the courage and strength to talk to local reporters who were covering our protest and even gave them my name. I donate money to groups who are working to stop illegal immigration and amnesty. So, I walk the walk.
I hope and pray that this country will expel illegals by using attrition through self-deportation, secure our borders and never again even think of amnesty.
Should this fail to happen, at least I can look at my child and grandkids and tell them that I did all that I could do to stop it.
Good for you, Bos!!! At least one of you out there is doing something! Maybe if more people post what they're doing, as well as viable suggestions (and not just the sarcastic quips I see interjected by a few "clever" (ahem) few), it will prompt more to do the same. I'll do it, too! In fact, I'm ready for a march on DC, as well as in front of these places housing these illegal children (AND the adults with some of them!)
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Originally Posted by lvoc
No you did not. Most of the 11 million is a lost cause. That is because we have an immigration regulating function capable at most of handling 500,000 illegals and we have 11 million. So you got two choices...reduce the illegals to 500,000 or preferably a good bit less or staff an immigration function that can handle 11 million. And even if you were willing to do that the situation has become so integrated into the society that it may not work. What do you do with the 2 or 3 million US citizen children for instance? And after you build this huge organization to handle the 11 million what do you do with them when the 11 million is down to a few hundred thousand?
Self deportation is a right wing myth. In my Las Vegas there are virtually no big on the books employers yet the illegals thrive. And mostly off the books.
Some here are going to ban rentals...A local regulation with no real federal hooks. And it is going to be tightly resisted everywhere the illegal population is high. You are basically trying to put people out of business to advance political aims...a neat thing for the right.
As far as the 11 million are concerned the only rational thing is see how quickly we can convert them into tax paying Americans.
And in the process try and seal off the entries so they are not followed by the next group.
My children have reached their fifties so they have done what they will. And their children will be fine likely still using illegal gardeners and nannies as my generation did.
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Originally Posted by lvoc
I think you could make deporting work. All you need is an immigration force 10 or 12 times bigger than the one we have. And to build such a force...8 to 10 years? And then in four or five we could probably have the illegals down to a few hundred thousand. But now we have what? 200,000 employees? 60 billion budget? Now what? Lay them all off?
The children have nothing to do with DACA. That is a 1992 law which was just discovered by a particular set of people as a way to beat the US system. And it works. If we did not however have an overloaded Immigration system it would not or would be a minor hiccough. It is the fact that the system already had a two year backlog that makes it play.
You folk lack the necessary backing to get anything through the system with out comprehensive immigration reform. Period. There is no option available that will change that. So you have two real choices. Make the best deal you can or block any deal. Right now you block with the outcome that the illegal immigrant population will rise to new levels if any significant stress occurs in Mexico. It may not...but that will just leave the existing level. So with your present strategy you get what we see with lots of downside potential. If we make a deal we have a good shot at limiting the illegals to those on board. Worse case we could end up in the same place as the no deal route...but there is a shot at a better outcome.
Can you be any more negative or defeatist? Any stats, articles, personal experience or otherwise to back up anything you say? Haven't you even tried to read my posts, or delve into the articles I've referenced over several of them?
Or do you just ignore everything and want to post for the heck of it. You seem to get supreme enjoyment continuing to make either sarcastic quips thinking you're "clever", or want to continue to bash the "right"? I just keep shaking my head at your posts. It sounds like maybe you've been "sniffin'" too many, er, daisies...
C'mon. We can come up with something better than this. I bet if we taxpayers start to become vocal...and I don't just mean here on CD, we CAN effect change. Assemble, protest, block. Become "community organizers" and make "change" (sound familiar???) Sorry, Ivoc, you asked for it.
Maybe form a human chain at the border. Anything to be seen, heard, and spread the word to the other non-CD folk sitting at home watching whatever sitcom, and hopefully then, the evening news.
At least Ivoc got one thing right- block any more from coming in. However, that STILL leaves us with a MINIMUM of $9 Trillion dollars spent on these illegals (not including the kids who still keep flooding in) in about 20-30 years. If that won't prompt you to try to think of a solution or get up off your arse, then there's no hope. Stick to the gardening forums.
~Dandi
PS- I'm usually very civil...I apologize. But this is just too much!!!!
I called a local news channel and complained about how they are being so sympathic to the illegals cause. I told them exactly what I thought about their aiding people to invade this country. I wonder if others did the same thing because they had taken the story off the next newscast.
We had known illegals demonstrating on our street corners and nothing was being done about it. So I called the police and asked why they were not being arrested because they were admitting they were here illegally and that is a crime. Then here comes Obama and his executive order protecting these criminals.
Some were arrested and then our courts let them go and gave them a paper and told them to report to the immigration center in Atlanta. If we can afford to bus these people into our country then surely we can afford to bus them out or better yet, fly them out on all empty seats in the airplanes. As my husband says, "No one in D. C. cares whether these people leave or not."
Maybe our politicians need to look at this poll and see how the average law-abiding American citizen stands on this issue.
No you did not.
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I most certainly did and will continue to do!
And I will continue to push for attrition through self-deportation.
Just because you have no respect for our immigration laws, does NOT give you the right to belittle and denigrate those who want our laws enforced and care about the future of our country.
So you are high in respect for a law you obviously believe to be hopelessly flawed and unworkable? The present situation was brought to you by our immigration laws.
Do you dislike laws that work to be consistent?
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Ivoc also writes:
My children have reached their fifties so they have done what they will. And their children will be fine likely still using illegal gardeners and nannies as my generation did.
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Speak for yourself! Just because you think it's okay to use "illegal gardeners and nannies" and you set a bad example for your kids who did the same, do not assume that the rest of us behave in the same way.
We take care of our own yard and we raised our own child. We also make sure to not hire any companies who use illegal alien labor.
Well I will just have to live with the sin. Me and the other 40 million who live in the Southwestern US.
Who is it you think builds our houses, maintains our lawns, sits for our children. Who do you think cleans the stores you buy at?
You will be pleased to note my gardener is legal. I know because he took all his kids to visit Mexico and he drove his car...
There is nothing "hopelessly flawed and unworkable" about our laws against illegal immigration. What is "flawed" is that they are not getting enforced. You've been told this many, many times yet you continue to beat a dead horse.
Who builds our houses? Well...when mine was built in the late 90s, American citizens built it. Unfortunately, they've been displaced by illegal aliens who get hired by sleazy contractors who pay under the table and undercut honest contractors.
Who sits for our children? When we needed a sitter, it was either a family member or a trusted friend. I can't imagine how anyone can knowingly hire an illegal alien to be a nanny to their kids. Since the person is illegally here, they haven't had health checks. Heck, they could give you a fake name and fake SSN. If they do that, for all you know, they have a rap sheet in their own country. Knowingly hiring an illegal alien to care for your children is highly irresponsible.
Who do you think is "cleaning stores"? I'll also add to that---hotel rooms and working back of the house restaurant jobs. American citizens do indeed do those jobs. Perhaps the next time you stay in a hotel, take the time to talk to some of the employees---even in immigrant-heavy cities. You will find that alot of them are American citizens and legal immigrants. American citizens and legal immigrants are also working back of the house jobs in restaurants. There is a chain restaurant conglomerate that uses E-verify---and they aren't alone.
Just because you admitting to sinning, don't lump everybody into the same category as you. There are many of us who make an effort to NOT hire illegals.
What did it cost? What is the cost of incarceration at a detention center.
So for say $50,000 they got him to stay in Mexico. So for a mere 550 billion dollars we can get rid of the 11 million? Let's see at the rate at which we spend money on ICE that will take 110 years and the illegals will all be gone.
What guarantees that he will stay in Mexico? Nothing. paying a criminal a ransom is a fools game at best.
Sort of like rewarding them for their crimes.
Can you be any more negative or defeatist? Any stats, articles, personal experience or otherwise to back up anything you say? Haven't you even tried to read my posts, or delve into the articles I've referenced over several of them?
I have read virtually everything written on the subject of any quality. And that includes places like CIS and Fair who are not exactly in agreement with my views.
Do you really think there is thought behind the anti positions? Find me a fact based article leading to the conclusion that the illegals can be gotten to self deport. How about a sound analysis that says we are actually going to pass a hiring law that does not contain "knowingly"? How about an analysis of how to widely ban renting to illegals?
I would also note I have been criticized elsewhere for referring to the illegals as illegals.
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Or do you just ignore everything and want to post for the heck of it. You seem to get supreme enjoyment continuing to make either sarcastic quips thinking you're "clever", or want to continue to bash the "right"? I just keep shaking my head at your posts. It sounds like maybe you've been "sniffin'" too many, er, daisies...
C'mon. We can come up with something better than this. I bet if we taxpayers start to become vocal...and I don't just mean here on CD, we CAN effect change. Assemble, protest, block. Become "community organizers" and make "change" (sound familiar???) Sorry, Ivoc, you asked for it.
You won't. This group talks... no action. Generally true on the illegal issue in general. I use things like the daisy to avoid pointing out what is really true.
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Maybe form a human chain at the border. Anything to be seen, heard, and spread the word to the other non-CD folk sitting at home watching whatever sitcom, and hopefully then, the evening news.
At least Ivoc got one thing right- block any more from coming in. However, that STILL leaves us with a MINIMUM of $9 Trillion dollars spent on these illegals (not including the kids who still keep flooding in) in about 20-30 years. If that won't prompt you to try to think of a solution or get up off your arse, then there's no hope. Stick to the gardening forums.
~Dandi
PS- I'm usually very civil...I apologize. But this is just too much!!!!
Last edited by lvoc; 07-04-2014 at 07:25 PM..
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Please don't eat the daisies
I just keep shaking my head at your posts. It sounds like maybe you've been "sniffin'" too many, er, daisies...
