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Old 12-19-2007, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow73 View Post
Reagan is "canonized" by some because his tax and spend military policy helped to break the back of the USSR. His tax and spend military policies also pulled us out of the Carter era malaise of stagflation (which was not wholly Carter's fault but a long term fallout of Vietnam and OPEC supply policy, Carter merely happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and failed miserably and doing anything about it!). Reagan was NOT a fiscal conservative and by my standard not what a Republican should be about. He totally raped and pillaged domestic agendas to fund foreign policy agendas. He was a bloated government Republican (the antithesis of true consertive Republicanism) and IMO, most of our current candidates can fairly easily be lumped right in with him. He was by no means an ineffectual president but he also wasn't the be all end all greatest thing since sliced bread. He did some good things for America but he did it at the expense of Americans.
Thank you for the explanation there.

I did not particularly care for Reagan's terms as President but he did do some good.
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:10 PM
 
1,252 posts, read 725,704 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow73 View Post
Reagan is "canonized" by some because his tax and spend military policy helped to break the back of the USSR. His tax and spend military policies also pulled us out of the Carter era malaise of stagflation (which was not wholly Carter's fault but a long term fallout of Vietnam and OPEC supply policy, Carter merely happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and failed miserably and doing anything about it!). Reagan was NOT a fiscal conservative and by my standard not what a Republican should be about. He totally raped and pillaged domestic agendas to fund foreign policy agendas. He was a bloated government Republican (the antithesis of true consertive Republicanism) and IMO, most of our current candidates can fairly easily be lumped right in with him. He was by no means an ineffectual president but he also wasn't the be all end all greatest thing since sliced bread. He did some good things for America but he did it at the expense of Americans.
As we evidently both know, the hagiographers don't portray Reagan in any variant of that light many of us know to be none too flattering.


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..

According to the hagiographers, Reagan single-handedly
broke the back' of the Soviet Union, single-handedly dissolved the Soviet Union, and single-handedly ended the Cold War, thereby saving us all from the Red Scare for forevermore.

Etc, etc, etc, ........

Reagan's administration was responsible for more indictments being handed down to members of his administration than any administration before him. (GW is on a pace to shatter that record).

...and it should be noted, that many of those individuals indicted, and involved in the scandals of Reagan's day, have today, been brought back into positions to either formulate, or sway US policy once again.

Reagan is not merely noted for his accomplishments, he is elevated far beyond them, and his failures are erased and covered over with outright falsehoods.

Reagan's 'canonization' is unearned, and yet it persists, and the myth grows.

And to be fair, Reagan didn't dream up the Amnesty legislation, his handlers may have set him up to promote it, but it was formulated by others, and instituted by Congress. (many of whom are still handling the present 'spokesman' and many of whom are still sitting in Congress today)
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
7,065 posts, read 10,810,797 times
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The Simpson-Mizzoli Act (named for it's sponsors in the senate and house) was the 1986 attempt at immigration reform. Reagan signed it reluctantly, believing at the time that it would only be legalizing about a million illegals. Instead, it was closer to 3 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra...ol_Act_of_1986

It was supposed to be the FINAL amnesty. Instead, it has encouraged millions more to enter illegally and break our laws, believing that one day they too will receive amnesty.
This is what makes people so cynical and why we can never grant another one.
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 2,972,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
The Simpson-Mizzoli Act (named for it's sponsors in the senate and house) was the 1986 attempt at immigration reform. Reagan signed it reluctantly, believing at the time that it would only be legalizing about a million illegals. Instead, it was closer to 3 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra...ol_Act_of_1986

It was supposed to be the FINAL amnesty. Instead, it has encouraged millions more to enter illegally and break our laws, believing that one day they too will receive amnesty.
This is what makes people so cynical and why we can never grant another one.
Too right. Another amnesty won't fix anything; the 1986 one was a massive mistake. Damn Reagan for ever doing it.
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
7,065 posts, read 10,810,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeDallasite View Post
Too right. Another amnesty won't fix anything; the 1986 one was a massive mistake. Damn Reagan for ever doing it.
He was persuaded to sign it because of the penalties it imposed on employers. Of course, as we know, subsequent administrations have done little to enforce the law.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:33 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
He was persuaded to sign it because of the penalties it imposed on employers. Of course, as we know, subsequent administrations have done little to enforce the law.
Also what Reagan intended was to give amnesty to only those who had been living in the USA -- and at that time it was not all that many. Reagan's amnesty could have sounded perfectly fair as he presented it but there were those who distorted it to include basically anyone who came running over the border to get in on it -- massive fraud was committed and no effort was made to minimize fraud.

People who had never before stepped foot in the USA were handed their amnesty, there was no effort by the amnestied to learn English or adapt -- it wasn't required or even promoted.

The future may have the USA splitting apart and at the least fractured and divided by language -- and we can all thank that amnesty as the beginning of the end of the USA as a cohesive nation.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:09 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,874,837 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
The Simpson-Mizzoli Act (named for it's sponsors in the senate and house) was the 1986 attempt at immigration reform. Reagan signed it reluctantly, believing at the time that it would only be legalizing about a million illegals. Instead, it was closer to 3 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra...ol_Act_of_1986

It was supposed to be the FINAL amnesty. Instead, it has encouraged millions more to enter illegally and break our laws, believing that one day they too will receive amnesty.
This is what makes people so cynical and why we can never grant another one.
I read that NAFTA is what encouraged more illegals to come here for the wages?, and Bush Sr. is who started NAFTA, then Clinton pushed it through and so on.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:17 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,874,837 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
He was persuaded to sign it because of the penalties it imposed on employers. Of course, as we know, subsequent administrations have done little to enforce the law.
Reagan said the one thing he regretted not doing as President was not closing or sealing the border with Mexico before he left office. I think he was a man of vision who wanted to protect citizens and soverignty, unlike the globalists after him who seek to entertwine the U.S. with two other countries.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:16 AM
 
1,252 posts, read 725,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faith10 View Post
Reagan said the one thing he regretted not doing as President was not closing or sealing the border with Mexico before he left office. I think he was a man of vision who wanted to protect citizens and soverignty, unlike the globalists after him who seek to entertwine the U.S. with two other countries.
Uh, I'll assume you will provide a source to verify where you came up with that claim?

Seems to contradict this New York Times headline......

Quote:
REAGAN CONFESSES A 'MAJOR REGRET': FAILURE ON IRAN
President Reagan, trying to rebound from the lowest point of his Presidency, told Congress and a national broadcast audience tonight that he had ''one major regret,'' the failure of the attempt to win the freedom of American hostages and establish contacts with Iran.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...52C0A961948260

There appears to be this instance where Reagan admits one regret of his presidency....

That doesn't seem to agree with your claim.

Do you have a source to confirm your claim?, or....

.....could this be more of the Reagan myth at work, ?????

As far as Reagan 'regretting' not being able to make contacts with Iran, I seem to remember an 'arms for hostage' deal.

That established some contacts, .....illegal contacts. Revisionist history is alive.....
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Last edited by User 2; 12-21-2007 at 02:41 AM..
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:21 AM
 
1,252 posts, read 725,704 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by faith10 View Post
Bush Sr. is who started NAFTA,
NAFTA, the actual treaty, was signed by HW Bush under his fast-track prerogative.

The Republican majority Congress didn't ratify the treaty until Clinton's term.

The U.S. House passed NAFTA with a narrow vote of 234-200 pushed through by Republican Representatives.

The vote breakdown was 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats voting in favor, 156 Democrats, 43 Republicans, and 1 independent against).

The U.S. Senate also passed NAFTA in a vote of 61-38, again with a Republican majority able to push it through by voting in favor of passage.

34 Republicans and 27 Democrats voting in favor, 28 Democrats and 10 Republicans voting against.

Clinton promoted the separate treaties, the North American Commission for Environmental Cooperation, NAAEC, and the North American Agreement on Labour Cooperation, NAALC.

As is clearly shown by the signing and the ratification votes, NAFTA is a Republican creation, ...despite efforts to blame Clinton for NAFTA, it is HW Bush, and the Republican majority Congress who 'own' NAFTA.

When we wish to show our appreciation for all the benefits of NAFTA, it's important we give our thanks to the 'right' folks.
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..
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