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Old 07-06-2014, 12:42 PM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,597,794 times
Reputation: 3021

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectMersh View Post
Shame on the protesters in Murrieta. Yes, the situation is a mess with no easy answers.

But screaming down buses filled mostly with children who have fled dangerous/horrendous circumstances? ....and I thought Murrietta was populuated with folks with good "Christian" values. What a crock of sh*&t that is!

Not a proud moment to be an American...

There are thousands of children who are so scared to die that they are willing to take the most dangerous journey of their lives for the chance of a better future. I am not implying that the US government should assume responsibility for every single one of these children. I also do not think we should drop them off at the border like unwanted animals. As I said, there are no easy answers but we have a choice to make as a country. We can allow fear and self-centeredness to drive the conversation, or we can chose to look at these children for exactly what they are: traumatized, scared, and vulnerable human beings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aboveordinary View Post
Repped you! Totally agree! There is no easy solution. Many people have a black and white thought process with things like this.
I guarantee you that these two would be screaming the loudest if they experienced a home invasion robbery, called the police and were told "I'm sorry, this just isn't a black and white situation. We'll have to see what caused these people to rob your homes. They may have just been wanting a better life, so they robbed you." They'd be screaming bloody murder.

And that's just what this is....a large scale home invasion.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:59 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,210,041 times
Reputation: 1593
I'm done arguing about this. We all have our opinions on what to do. That's the beauty of America. We are allowed to have differing opinions.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,802 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17694
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectMersh View Post
Shame on the protesters in Murrieta. Yes, the situation is a mess with no easy answers.

But screaming down buses filled mostly with children who have fled dangerous/horrendous circumstances? ....and I thought Murrietta was populuated with folks with good "Christian" values. What a crock of sh*&t that is!

Not a proud moment to be an American...

There are thousands of children who are so scared to die that they are willing to take the most dangerous journey of their lives for the chance of a better future. I am not implying that the US government should assume responsibility for every single one of these children. I also do not think we should drop them off at the border like unwanted animals. As I said, there are no easy answers but we have a choice to make as a country. We can allow fear and self-centeredness to drive the conversation, or we can chose to look at these children for exactly what they are: traumatized, scared, and vulnerable human beings.
Why don't you and yours empty your bank account "helping" these people that can't figure out not to have kids they can't support. This "situation" down there didn't just happen overnight. Who has kids in such madness?

Guess what, now their problem is our problem. I'm sick and tired of these irresponsible humans.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
11,970 posts, read 10,767,671 times
Reputation: 5856
I would imagine, that at least one of these women have connections to narco trafficcante. Now that is truly scary. It sounds good helpless women and children. It will not play out that way in the real day to day you can bet on it. It's sad but 1Angry is correct.

As a teenager I was glad that we had come to the United States and I learned and loved civics and my learning how to drive was a component of my citizenship. Now, drivers licenses are given away to anyone, illegally here? not a problem? speak some other language? no issue. Don't want to work? Here, let us give you some money for groceries and by the way if your 300 lb ass ends up in the emergency room....heck, we will pay for that too! Welcome to America. Whose paying for this you ask? Who cares?

Welcome to California.
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:44 AM
 
1,481 posts, read 3,616,925 times
Reputation: 2243
After reading the comments on this topic, I can easily identify contributors who belong to The Party of We as opposed to those who belong to The Party of Me. The chasm between them is pretty striking.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:51 AM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,210,041 times
Reputation: 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Why don't you and yours empty your bank account "helping" these people that can't figure out not to have kids they can't support. This "situation" down there didn't just happen overnight. Who has kids in such madness?

Guess what, now their problem is our problem. I'm sick and tired of these irresponsible humans.
This is the last time I am going to post in this thread.

This is such a stupid argument. The same thing can be said about anything that uses American tax money. If you are so concerned about what is going on in Iraq why don't you donate money to the Iraqis? If you are so concerned about homeless Vets why don't you donate money to Habitat for Humanity or some other veteran charity? If you don't think healthcare or jobs bills are helping the American people then what do you suggest we do? You told me that we should spend our money on helping our own people but said that believing in better healthcare and jobs bills is only the answer if you want to live in Panama. Obviously our congress could give two s*its about the American people or they would stop wasting their time trying to find any little thing to impeach Obama over. They've been doing that since 2010. Instead they should be working across the isle and with Obama to get things passed.

I don't agree that Illegal immigrants should get drivers licenses because it removes the incentive to becoming an actual citizen. I don't agree with completely open borders. I do think that a huge wall does nothing. Do you think we live in 20th century Berlin? Are we supposed to build a wall like the Great wall of China? I've read some really fascist crap from some people on city-data about how anyone crossing the border should be shot no matter what. That's pretty heartless and disgusting. A lot of Pro-amnesty people are open to discussions about possible solutions on what to do. I myself think there should be reform of some sort because obviously what we have now does not work. People have been coming over the border illegally for decades so this isn't some new thing that just started happening. I know deep down you and people of your ilk are going to blame Obama. I mean- he is at fault for everything right? BTW, your hero Ronald Regan gave amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants.

These are children coming across the border scared and hoping they can find a better life here. It's not like the Border Patrol and ICE agents went over the border into Mexico and brought them over here. They were already here. When someone comes across illegally they are processed by Border officials. That's part of the system. Don't like it? Talk to your representatives about it. But stopping buses of children and screaming and yelling is disgusting and doesn't solve anything.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:29 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,802 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17694
Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
I would imagine, that at least one of these women have connections to narco trafficcante. Now that is truly scary. It sounds good helpless women and children. It will not play out that way in the real day to day you can bet on it. It's sad but 1Angry is correct.

As a teenager I was glad that we had come to the United States and I learned and loved civics and my learning how to drive was a component of my citizenship. Now, drivers licenses are given away to anyone, illegally here? not a problem? speak some other language? no issue. Don't want to work? Here, let us give you some money for groceries and by the way if your 300 lb ass ends up in the emergency room....heck, we will pay for that too! Welcome to America. Whose paying for this you ask? Who cares?

Welcome to California.
It's fiscally irresponsible. There is probably a billion poor on the planet and we sure can't bring them all in. Unless of course, we want to resemble the same place they are all coming from. The Partisan hacks just don't get it either. After seeing what is being pushed at Congress it's no wonder we haven't gotten anywhere with any type of reform if what is being presented looks like amnesty. The Burger King, have it your way, end around runs on the Constitution have got to stop.


I saw a great bumper sticker, will the last American leaving please take the flag with you.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
547 posts, read 629,611 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Why don't you and yours empty your bank account "helping" these people that can't figure out not to have kids they can't support. This "situation" down there didn't just happen overnight. Who has kids in such madness?

Guess what, now their problem is our problem. I'm sick and tired of these irresponsible humans.
Plenty of these kids are 11, 12, 13 years old. The security situation in Honduras, while never great, has deteriorated greatly since 2009 due to the combined effects of the constitional crisis and violence due to the increase in the narco trade in central america. And let's not forget that it is the USA which is the biggest market for the cocaine that is driving much of the gang violence.

So essentially what you are saying is the mothers of these kids should have forseen the following events before giving birth to their kids over ten years ago:

1. the 2009 Honduran constitutional crisis
2. the rise in violence in Honduras due to an increase in Narco traffic in that country given successful efforts in other areas (Colombia for example).
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
547 posts, read 629,611 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
We don't have the resources for them or don't you understand that? Pretty stupid post to bring Christian values up. It has nothing to do with it. Try reading a few posts about the destruction of some employment fields, overcrowding schools and putting a drain on the system.

They are illegal. Period. You take some in and use your finances to support them. I hope they deport every last one.
First of all, I don't read "posts" to inform myself on current affairs. If more people would actually read legitimate sources we have might have less ignorance on the subject (don't care if you prefer the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or the Economist, anything but C-D).

Second, yes it is appropriate to bring Christian values up given the Mayor of Murrieta encouraged the protests. Riverside and San Diego County are a hotbed for the religous right, especially the more outlying areas. The very people who often bring religon into the public policy debate are many of those same folks seething with anger who we saw block those buses. But yeah, I didn't see any "What would Jesus do" placards at the protest. I wonder why?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
We don't have the resources for them or don't you understand that? Pretty stupid post to bring Christian values up. It has nothing to do with it. Try reading a few posts about the destruction of some employment fields, overcrowding schools and putting a drain on the system.

They are illegal. Period. You take some in and use your finances to support them. I hope they deport every last one.

Make up your mind. You are against this because we don't have the resources or because "They are illegal. Period." ...???

But your point that illegal immigration is bad because it is illegal is a moot point. This is a great example of circular reasoning, if such reasoning were true then slavery would have been a good thing because it was legal.

Again, I am not at all suggesting we should take all (or even most of) these kids in. But as AboveTheOrdinary pointed out, the fiscal argument simply does not fly given the US has had the credit card out for over 30 years to finance all kinds of dubious foreign excursions. The costs of this are a drop in the bucket for a nation with over 300 million people and a Gross Domestic Product over 16 trillion dollars.
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
547 posts, read 629,611 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
I guarantee you that these two would be screaming the loudest if they experienced a home invasion robbery, called the police and were told "I'm sorry, this just isn't a black and white situation. We'll have to see what caused these people to rob your homes. They may have just been wanting a better life, so they robbed you." They'd be screaming bloody murder.

And that's just what this is....a large scale home invasion.
No, your analogy is way off the mark. A home invasion suggests a 100% innocent party is violated by a 100% guilty party.

International migration is not so black and white. In the specific case of the current crisis, the Narco trade has shifted into high gear into central america given successful efforts to squash it in other regions (such as the U.S. led Plan Colombia).

The U.S. is the biggest market for these drug "products"....

That doesn't mean we should take in all these kids but it does suggest we play a role in it. Not the same as Grandma sitting on her couch getting jacked by a couple of thugs.
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