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Old 07-07-2014, 01:49 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
3,757 posts, read 3,713,652 times
Reputation: 2982

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectMersh View Post
Second, yes it is appropriate to bring Christian values up given the Mayor of Murrieta encouraged the protests. Riverside and San Diego County are a hotbed for the religous right, especially the more outlying areas. The very people who often bring religon into the public policy debate are many of those same folks seething with anger who we saw block those buses. But yeah, I didn't see any "What would Jesus do" placards at the protest. I wonder why?
Yes, I get annoyed when we in the United States associate Christians with certain political movements. I believe that faith is much different than religion/politics. I can't exactly imagine my Lord Jesus out there angrily turning away buses full of children.

At the same time I get the fiscal argument and that we need to set a precedence. But the anger , hate (not racism), and fear that was displayed up in Murrietta was in my opinion a disgrace.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:27 PM
 
2,587 posts, read 1,610,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectMersh View Post
No, your analogy is way off the mark. A home invasion suggests a 100% innocent party is violated by a 100% guilty party.

International migration is not so black and white. In the specific case of the current crisis, the Narco trade has shifted into high gear into central america given successful efforts to squash it in other regions (such as the U.S. led Plan Colombia).

The U.S. is the biggest market for these drug "products"....

That doesn't mean we should take in all these kids but it does suggest we play a role in it. Not the same as Grandma sitting on her couch getting jacked by a couple of thugs.
No, my analogy was spot on. You have people illegally coming into the country. It's the same as people breaking into your home. No difference at all.

But with your thinking, people who leave packages in their cars are responsible if they get stolen and a woman dressing provocatively is just asking to be raped.

Last edited by Mike930; 07-07-2014 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:32 PM
 
2,587 posts, read 1,610,604 times
Reputation: 3067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectMersh View Post
First of all, I don't read "posts" to inform myself on current affairs. If more people would actually read legitimate sources we have might have less ignorance on the subject (don't care if you prefer the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or the Economist, anything but C-D).

Second, yes it is appropriate to bring Christian values up given the Mayor of Murrieta encouraged the protests. Riverside and San Diego County are a hotbed for the religous right, especially the more outlying areas. The very people who often bring religon into the public policy debate are many of those same folks seething with anger who we saw block those buses. But yeah, I didn't see any "What would Jesus do" placards at the protest. I wonder why?





Make up your mind. You are against this because we don't have the resources or because "They are illegal. Period." ...???

But your point that illegal immigration is bad because it is illegal is a moot point. This is a great example of circular reasoning, if such reasoning were true then slavery would have been a good thing because it was legal.

Again, I am not at all suggesting we should take all (or even most of) these kids in. But as AboveTheOrdinary pointed out, the fiscal argument simply does not fly given the US has had the credit card out for over 30 years to finance all kinds of dubious foreign excursions. The costs of this are a drop in the bucket for a nation with over 300 million people and a Gross Domestic Product over 16 trillion dollars.
The facts are that they are illegal AND we don't have the resources. Sorry if you can only process one reason at a time.

Your comment about slavery is one of the most ignorant ones I've seen.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:34 PM
 
16,785 posts, read 19,726,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboveordinary View Post
Ah, there it is! The proverbial "guns solve everything" rebuttal. So you would shoot at a bus driver for simply doing the job they were hired to do - to transport immigrants? Standing in front of the buses and stopping them was quite silly and stupid. It didn't solve anything at all because the immigrants were just sent to another facility.
Wrong, it made a statement that people are getting fed up.

If you're so welcoming of these people, how many will you be taking into your home?

It also has been mentioned that the airplanes that have been used to bring them into this country have now carried diseases in addition to the lice and scabies.....lovely.

How would you like to get on a plane after the "immigrants" have been transported on it?
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,941 posts, read 30,201,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
The facts are that they are illegal AND we don't have the resources. Sorry if you can only process one reason at a time.

Your comment about slavery is one of the most ignorant ones I've seen.
Everything I've read says that a whopping 20% show up to their deportation hearing. The other 80% end up in our neighborhoods, our schools, our ER rooms and on our roads. Of course they are going to come if they know they won't be deported. Defacto amnesty is already in the works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
Wrong, it made a statement that people are getting fed up.

If you're so welcoming of these people, how many will you be taking into your home?

It also has been mentioned that the airplanes that have been used to bring them into this country have now carried diseases in addition to the lice and scabies.....lovely.

How would you like to get on a plane after the "immigrants" have been transported on it?
Or in the ER would be the most likely spot you encounter some new disease yet found with no cure. If these Nations are in such dire straights why isn't the UN in there? I'd rather my taxes be used to fix the problem where the problem lies, not bring the problem to our doorstep. This is a Federal issue that WE are being forced to deal with at a neighborhood level.
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
547 posts, read 632,332 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
Your comment about slavery is one of the most ignorant ones I've seen.
If you are unfamiliar with logical reasoning than you probably would have trouble following the simple explanation of circular logic in my prior post.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
The facts are that they are illegal AND we don't have the resources. Sorry if you can only process one reason at a time.
I only see one reason stated above in bold. The underlined portion is like someone saying, "Muder is wrong because it is illegal." It is a statement without any real meaning.
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:43 PM
 
2,587 posts, read 1,610,604 times
Reputation: 3067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectMersh View Post
If you are unfamiliar with logical reasoning than you probably would have trouble following the simple explanation of circular logic in my prior post.






I only see one reason stated above in bold. The underlined portion is like someone saying, "Muder is wrong because it is illegal." It is a statement without any real meaning.
Sorry if you can't read. I'm sure you can find a remedial English class somewhere. Perhaps with some of the illegal alien children.
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Old 07-07-2014, 03:49 PM
 
2,587 posts, read 1,610,604 times
Reputation: 3067
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Everything I've read says that a whopping 20% show up to their deportation hearing. The other 80% end up in our neighborhoods, our schools, our ER rooms and on our roads. Of course they are going to come if they know they won't be deported. Defacto amnesty is already in the works.
That number doesn't suprise me at all. I read a laughable article today quoting an ICE agent who said when they release the illegals, they have to show up to a hearing. ICE gets a phone number where they're going so they can keep track of them. Yeah, I'm sure that's working out well. Shouldn't be any problem.

You're right about the amnesty.

Last edited by Mike930; 07-07-2014 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
547 posts, read 632,332 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
Sorry if you can't read. I'm sure you can find a remedial English class somewhere. Perhaps with some of the illegal alien children.
When all else fails, attack the person instead of addressing the issue/argument at stake.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:10 PM
 
Location: New York City/San Diego, CA
581 posts, read 830,658 times
Reputation: 801
I think another poster made it clear: There are no easy answers here.

There is no denying that the USA has caused some of the problems south of the border. Realistically, a "secure" border is not possible and even if it were, it would require a huge amount of money we don't have. Mass deportations are not realistic either. It would cost the USA huge amounts of money to purchase plane tickets back to Honduras or Guatemala and we can't dump these folks on Mexico either. There are already millions of undocumented immigrants in this country.

The answer is certainly not cruelty to little children who have bad parents at home. There are also crazies out there who think everyone crossing the border illegally should be shot and I will block anyone who says that; those people are not worth engaging with.

This is something the country needs to have a dialogue about and people like angrytaxpayer, and mike930, and the Murrieta protesters are not contributing anything at all. I think everyone is willing to listen if you can get past your anger at the border crossers breaking the law, which is understandable. But maybe you should be angry at the drug users in this country who helped create the narco regimes in Central America, not the people trying to escape these regimes and live a better life.

Yes, illegal border crossers made bad choices, as did their parents, but so did many of the leaders WE elected, and we have to take responsibility for that.

Dialogue about the actual situation is most welcomed, and not woulda/shoulda talk. This is a problem with America right now, the partisan rhetoric is preventing both sides from finding actual solutions.

Last edited by sfosyd; 07-07-2014 at 07:25 PM..
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