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Old 07-25-2014, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,904,581 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
If the parents are here illegally, arrest and deport them too. Sheesh!
Yeah I don't get that either. If the parents come forward arrest them and fly them all home together.

 
Old 07-25-2014, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,530,998 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
That's just it. The defenders of illegal aliens want us to listen to their side of the story but they refuse to listen to our side that is based on facts and our laws. I am sorry but I can't be swayed by emotional based arguments where compassion is expected from us for illegal aliens and yet they apparently have no compassion for our own citizens who are suffering from all of this.

They make statements that illegal aliens aren't taking jobs that Americans are willing to do and not reducing wages. They refuse to acknowledge that they commit felony ID theft to work and reside in this country. They refuse to acknowledge how they are depleting our welfare coffers through fraud and by giving birth on our soil. They refuse to acknowledge the crowding our schools, jails and hospitals and the added crime that they bring. Bring me a valid argument to not enforce our immigration and to grant millions amnesty after acknowledging the truth of all of the above. Take emotion out of it and use some common sense.
They can not use logic, reason, and common sense, emotionalism is based on feeling, which is easy, not thinking, and deduction which is hard..

They dont care about facts, states, victims, costs, or the loss of liberty that is a given in areas with high populations...

The refuse to see the light, so we must show them the light..and should they be a fight(god forbid)..So be it..

You can not destroy a nation just because yours is so god awful.
 
Old 07-25-2014, 09:46 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,310,387 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
That's just it. The defenders of illegal aliens want us to listen to their side of the story but they refuse to listen to our side that is based on facts and our laws. I am sorry but I can't be swayed by emotional based arguments where compassion is expected from us for illegal aliens and yet they apparently have no compassion for our own citizens who are suffering from all of this.

They make statements that illegal aliens aren't taking jobs that Americans are willing to do and not reducing wages. They refuse to acknowledge that they commit felony ID theft to work and reside in this country. They refuse to acknowledge how they are depleting our welfare coffers through fraud and by giving birth on our soil. They refuse to acknowledge the crowding our schools, jails and hospitals and the added crime that they bring. Bring me a valid argument to not enforce our immigration and to grant millions amnesty after acknowledging the truth of all of the above. Take emotion out of it and use some common sense.



Power for the course then. Just like their President, his supporters are as thickheaded as he is.

Just like their President, they refuse to accept reality. Damn but they are a good match!

Most posters on this forum, cannot be this dense, I know we cannot continue on this same path we are going. We have got to get a hold on this very important issue. The cost alone. Our broken down school systems, cannot afford illegal children. And the criminals coming in as teenagers are not fooling a soul.

This is not good for our school system, our jails already over flooding. Women who come here for no reason other then to give birth on our soil. The fraud and there is plenty of ID theft. We as a Country do not need any added burden put upon our Country.

No other Country in this world, would be as kind and generous as we are with illegal people jumping there borders, and then at the same time make demands. Crazy. And our children, and our grandchildren, should not have to suffer, because of refusal to do what is right and just for Americans, who ought to come first.. If those of us born here, are no different then people who can break the laws to come to this Country. What does that say about us.
 
Old 07-26-2014, 03:35 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,530,998 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
If the parents are here illegally, arrest and deport them too. Sheesh!
We need to stop using such language, use the term "repatriate" "or reunited in their home nation"..use the leftist tactics against them.
 
Old 07-26-2014, 08:43 AM
 
Location: US
3,079 posts, read 3,341,776 times
Reputation: 1629
Dear Listmates: I am posting this to ask for your action. Obama plans to go pick up 6 million immigrants in their own country and bring them here--an estimated 6 million more, a small percentage of which are children, by summer's end. Then he plans sweeping amnesty through an executive order which will also expand DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals). The net effect would be to seriously cripple or even end immigration enforcement.

Congress is working on a border crisis bill. We are being asked to contact our Congressmen to let them know that any border crisis bill must include language that stops Obama's executive action and expansion of DACA which he now plans for the end of the summer, after bringing in another 6 million immigrants. It must be made as a precondition to passing the bill that Obama will not be able to enter an executive action to grant amnesty and expand DACA.

Illinois Congressmen Gutierrez, an avid supporter of LaRaza, is on record saying "Americans must be punished." I don't think we need to be punished. We have been very liberal regarding our immigration.

Please contact your representatives and ask them to include the above language in any border crisis bill and ask them where they stand: Do they support gaining jobs, wages and good communities for their constituents or not. You may have to search but they generally have toll free numbers to their office. Apparently phone calls are better than emails, but you can do one or both.

If you don't know who your Congressmen are, you can click on the "Senators" link at the top at OpenCongress - 113th Congress - Track bills, votes, senators, and representatives in the U.S. Congress and then on your Congressmen's website to the right. You will have to enter either your zip code, address and/or email at a few places. If someone knows an easier way, please post it here.

Thanks very much.
 
Old 07-26-2014, 11:36 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,310,387 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
We need to stop using such language, use the term "repatriate" "or reunited in their home nation"..use the leftist tactics against them.

Why be as stupid as the left. And why do as they do, and sugarcoat the damn truth. How bout just using truth against the left, or is this something they can't manage.
 
Old 07-26-2014, 12:57 PM
 
Location: East Coast
673 posts, read 553,243 times
Reputation: 642
Default Wow!!! I missed all of this! My 4 cents (inflated to pay for all of these illegals...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
You ain't alone. More and more "liberals" are agreeing with what the Tea Party says about illegal aliens.
Agreed. Recent polls have shown this over and over again. A large majority of Americans (libs included) are finally realizing the absurdity and cost of having an open border, as well as allowing illegals to overburden ALL of our systems!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
It's no use explaining your history Texan1010, the folks in this forum don't care to reason with you.

My Mexican mother also came here illegally, and paid for everything in cash that she made from being a Nanny, she has never made a single claim. Also, when she married my father they started a produce market and now have a running business for over 30 years (house paid off). They produced 4 kids: 2 Engineers (myself included), an accountant and 1 great mother in the US as citizens.

It's doesn't matter. The people here are hardliners who would kill children on the border for putting a toe over the line.
Who is being unreasonable and ridiculous here??? I've been posting and watching these discussions for over 5 weeks now...as well as posting quite a few verifiable and logical research, economics, polls, and data on the actual means-tested and other cost burdens perpetrated by illegals. You are, like most libs, making sweeping generalizations that rise to the absurd (your last sentence).

The simple fact is that we don't want "illegals" and criminals crossing our border. That is NOT unreasonable! Don't break our laws. Why didn't your Grandmother do it LEGALLY, like mine and the other posters' had done??? I don't care WHAT she and her offspring did. It was criminal, and they "jumped" the line. What if EVERYONE in Central America and Mexico did this??? Our infrastructure and educational systems are failing right now...we couldn't handle it!!!! THAT'S why we cannot allow this to continue! Facts are facts, and criminals are criminals. Abide by our laws, or get the h*ll out!!! That's not racist, nor unreasonable.
For ANY viable country to continue to grow and sustain itself, it must abide by the rule of law. Simple fact. What about that don't you understand???

Someone posted the immigration laws about Switzerland and other countries with strict immigration policies... add to them, Austrailia (to a point), and the UAE (regardless of their religion and being Arabs...that's another topic entirely...).

Are ALL of the European countries and Australia wrong, hateful, stupid, and racist as well??? Hmmmm...I'd submit to you that they are just a bit more logical and practical than America has been. We've bent over backwards trying to help the world, to our ultimate disadvantage and possible downfall. Not to mention cost. The Heritage Foundation and Center for Immigration studies, along with other think-tanks and economists have shown that MOST illegals get their lion's share of our generosity via welfare, aid of all kind like WIC, foodstamps, lunch programs, housing vouchers, education with translators, free health care, and the list goes on and on and on. Most other countries don't offer that generosity. We've got to stop, as it's destroying us..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
I agree with you. Some very cold and cruel attitudes around this forum. I suspicion that most of them have never been out of the USA and see life in another country. I don't count Cruises as a trip to another country either. Or those destination weddings in Jamaica either.
You're absolutely wrong, and again, are spouting liberal slogans, labeling, and emotional ranting with untruths. Exactly which statements are "cold and cruel"? I haven't seen you logically back up any of your assertions, nor posted research or data proving such a ridiculous statement.

So far, I have seen people post info about our laws (which your and the OP's families have broken, not to mention "jumped the line" in reference to avoiding the Legal immigration route like our g'parents did).
Again, you've made assumptions...I've lived in Europe for 10 years. I've actually LIVED under their rules and conditions. Learned the languages (not easy to do so in a couple of months), but I did, and figured it was the least I could do to respect their cultures, as well as be a good representative of America whilst being a guest in their country.

What's your point about this, anyway? How does that change our attitudes to wanting to protect America, our own country, and prevent criminals from entering? Do you know that one of the most recent PEW studies have shown that 90% of the so-called "kids" coming here are actually "teens" who are already gang or cartel members, or are actually men??? Read it for yourself:
Pew Research Report: Nearly 90% of Illegal Immigrant 'Children' Are Teenagers

from: Pew Research Report: Nearly 90% of Illegal Immigrant 'Children' Are Teenagers

the following should chill anyone to the bone...including you, if you have a logical head on your shoulders:
"Texas state Senator Dan Patrick said law enforcement officers have said somewhere between one in five and one in 10 illegal immigrants are actually apprehended, which means there could be nearly 300,000 illegal immigrants who have snuck into the country undetected since October of last year. Patrick also noted that Texas has 100,000 illegal immigrant gang members and there are more illegal immigrants entering the state each week than people who are born in Texas during the same time period." (bold is my emphasis).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Coyote interview.

The Northern Triangle Children Don't Leave Alone: They Are Taken - InSight Crime | Organized Crime in the Americas


According to the Salvadoran forensics institute (IML), between 2010 and this year, the worst time to be a Salvadoran if you are hoping not to get murdered has been between the ages of 15 and 24. The worst age includes some of the years when one is formally considered a minor.

Here we have been violent for much more than six months. Here we have been violent for much more than the time period during which 52,000 children left.
Many of those 52,000 children surely left because a gang was trying to recruit or kill them. However, those same children were already leaving before. They left in 2004. They left in 2006. I traveled with one of them, a Guatemalan, in 2008. I traveled in Mexico with two of them -- two Salvadorans -- in 2009. Those who had a death sentence hanging over their heads have always fled. More than 1,000 Salvadoran children have been detained each year by the Border Patrol since 2009. More than 3,000 were detained in 2012, and nearly 6,000 in 2013. More than 11,000 so far in 2014. And it could be that now, with this wave, more children are leaving because they think they will be murdered. All told, the data tells us that it is an optical illusion to believe that Central America's youth have only been threatened for four months. They have been being threatened and killed for year

In just one sentence, Zamora dispels the expectations of anyone looking for a definitive explanation for the departure of these thousands of children in such a short time period: "There is not a single factual explanation."
But he has his own explanation:
"The Salvadoran community in the United States has been growing economically. While large numbers of people once lived together in a small room, now some can pay $1,000 and rent a two-bedroom house on the outskirts of a city. That's when the mother begins to be able to bring her children over. Now more people can pay for the trip to bring them. And, of course, the maras and the violence in the region speed this process. The economic situation of some, combined with the fear that their 14-year-old daughters could be raped or recruited by gangs, leads them to bring their children over. They don't see a way to bring them legally to the US and they see the security situation in the country as too poor for their children or for them to return to El Salvador. What option remains?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
I moved no goal posts. I answered the question. To think that all repubs are honest people is laughable!
I take offense to your last, sweeping, unsubstantiated, irrational, judgmental, and unsupported ridiculous statement. It has no business being in this discussion, and actually detracts from any cogent point you're trying to make.

I DO feel sorry for these people. But, tell me...WHY should this be our problem to fix here in America??? WHY should we take in the entire threatened population of Guatemala or any other CA Country?

For that matter, if we HAD to bring anyone here to escape violence, rape, maiming, death, and starvation, I'd start with the multi-countried African babies and children who are suffering MORE because of tribal and religious wars. They are the TRUE refugees!!!!

Then, I'd go to the Middle Eastern countries...and rescue the sack-clothed women and children who have been bombed out of their homes, and whose female children are being stolen by Boko Harem as sex slaves. These women and children are physically harmed, raped, bombed out of their homes, are running for their lives, and are subject to the extremes of gender apartheid. By international and American law, THEY are the ones who need our help. As the Africans are, these are the TRUE refugees as well!

Also, they are NOT "male teens", gang members, or cartel members!!!

You have absolutely NO cogent argument to add to this discourse!!! Let the neighboring Latin America countries of South America help these people out. NOT the U.S.!!!

I LOVE these next few posts. I, too, was once a liberal Democrat...spouting the "party line", even though I was young, grossly uninformed, and just hung on to the talking points thrust down my throat by liberal professors and the media. Since then, I've EDUCATED myself...worked my way through medical school (no handouts there, folks. Did it on my own through summer work and saving, a job throughout school, and very expensive loans. Yep...took me 15 years to pay it all back.) To hear of the push of current universities giving "full rides" to the poor, and illegals makes my blood boil!!! If I, as a poor AND handicapped individual (muscular dystrophy...it was NOT easy for me!) did it, certainly most other able-bodied young people, both legal or illegal, can do so without using MY TAX DOLLARS, or the high tuition I paid for my own kids!!!!!

Anyway, as I experienced life in America and from other countries, learned more about history, politics, and economics, and EDUCATED myself on politic points, counterpoints, and platforms, I matured, "grew up" and became more conservative...I'm an independent...voted Democratic early on, and now, because of all of the information I've acquired, vote mostly Republican. (Caveat...I don't care for them much, either! I'd LOVE a viable 3rd party, or revamp the entire screwed up lot of polys that we have in there right now...on BOTH sides!!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
Like you I was once a Democrat until I wised the hell up. And saw the democrat party slowly dismantle itself. No longer they watched over us, but used and abused.
However clearly, both party's are guilty, some of us can admit this, and some ignorant people can't and this is a problem.
Problem is we have a democrat running things right now, who promised us up and down, sideways, backways, that he was the one. He would be different in every possible way, and for the better.
Our problems that were broke, he would fix and he promised as in our tapes of him from 0/9 and 0/10.
Everything he damned Bush for, he has become and more, what difference does it make, a hell of a lot. This crisis he helped put his hand in. Let people believe they will get amnesty, a free ride, and they will take it. Is that their fault. Partly but if we have someone who makes it easy on them, and is passive and weak, they will come for the ride.
Democrats like the other party, need to get their chit in order, they are not special, they do not deserve free passes, and we can see thru their lies. And by the way, their ideals are not ideal!
They no longer give a damn about our middle class our poor, and tired of them condemning the rich, when most of them, are exactly that. With democrats, it is do as we warn you, or else.
I agree...see above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
Yes, amen. I also voted straight Dem for most of my adult life and just started voting Libertarian in 2012. I can no longer stomach what has happened to the old Dem party, the unions who used to support the American worker, etc. If any of you don't live in a swing state, it doesn't matter if you vote Dem or Repub for President. Your vote doesn't count anyway.
Yes, unfortunately. And ditto for above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Neither party is looking out for us. Obviously, you think that democrats are all honest people. Hardly. I could give examples of democrat dishonesty but...this post would be too long.
And, no, I'm not a republican. I'm an independent who was once a staunch democrat until democrats did a complete 180---and that's sad because at one time, democrats could be counted on to look out for the poor, working and middle class Americans. Those democrats of yore would never have tolerated illegal immigration because they knew how much it hurt their constituents.
So, Versatile, how many of these "kids" are you planning to foster?
Right there with ya, BOS...Ditto....see above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
So wanting the rule of law to be enforced
Wanting a secure border
Wanting a system of sane and limited immigration that benefits this nation
Wanting to not upset the balance of this nation
Wanting to prevent this nation from descending into a 3rd world slum
Wanting to prevent millions of new entitlement voters from being added to the roles

How is that cold and cruel?

I do not know how you can say that is cold and cruel.....

Wrong, we have, and we do say the rest of the world, it is a dark, poor, hellish, cruel existence.

And I will do everything in power to prevent this great nation from sliding into this pit of despair.

But then again you leftist love to claim you know so much when you no oh so very little.....

You love other cultures, nations and peoples over your own? Fine, leave move. Dont move those other cultures, nations, and peoples here.
Amen, Gunlover!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
That is not what I said, and you know it.

It IS about $$ and decimals.

There will be NO 'life issues' of import to discuss, if the economic foundation isn't first maintained.

This country will become a third-world slum - in your lifetime - if our politicians continue their pandering ways.
Great Summary, Ariadne22!!! We're already heading in that direction, and MUST stop it now.

So, the points are:

CLOSE the borders immediately!
SEND those "kids" (gangs, cartels) back to their countries...let them poison their own...not us!
DEPORT the criminals and illegals already here.
LEARN a LESSON from the countries who have strict immigration policies!!!

THIS IS IN NO WAY CRUEL, COLD, OR HATEFUL....AMERICA MUST REGROUP, REPAIR, AND GROW BEFORE WE CAN HELP ANYONE ELSE. ALSO, WE CAN'T HELP THEM HERE...IT MUST BE THROUGH HELPING THEIR COUNTRIES LEARN TO DEAL WITH THEIR OWN SITUATIONS!!!! PERIOD!!!!

Dandiday
 
Old 07-26-2014, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
1,169 posts, read 1,125,672 times
Reputation: 1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Well my mother is legal as of the 1986 Amnesty, so it worked out.

Doubt you would even recognize her as legal though despite the law, due to the hatred. Am I legal? I was born here in 1972 with a SSN... am I legal to you?
And that law needs to be changed.
 
Old 07-26-2014, 09:02 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,312,337 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by siameseifyoupls View Post
And that law needs to be changed.
Agreed and HOW! Leave those people who got their amnesty in 1986 alone but, cut OFF any kind of amnesty for people who ARE illegal aliens in 2014.
 
Old 07-26-2014, 10:06 PM
 
Location: East Coast
673 posts, read 553,243 times
Reputation: 642
Default thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolac View Post
Dear Listmates: I am posting this to ask for your action. Obama plans to go pick up 6 million immigrants in their own country and bring them here--an estimated 6 million more, a small percentage of which are children, by summer's end. Then he plans sweeping amnesty through an executive order which will also expand DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals). The net effect would be to seriously cripple or even end immigration enforcement.

Congress is working on a border crisis bill. We are being asked to contact our Congressmen to let them know that any border crisis bill must include language that stops Obama's executive action and expansion of DACA which he now plans for the end of the summer, after bringing in another 6 million immigrants. It must be made as a precondition to passing the bill that Obama will not be able to enter an executive action to grant amnesty and expand DACA.

Illinois Congressmen Gutierrez, an avid supporter of LaRaza, is on record saying "Americans must be punished." I don't think we need to be punished. We have been very liberal regarding our immigration.

Please contact your representatives and ask them to include the above language in any border crisis bill and ask them where they stand: Do they support gaining jobs, wages and good communities for their constituents or not. You may have to search but they generally have toll free numbers to their office. Apparently phone calls are better than emails, but you can do one or both.

If you don't know who your Congressmen are, you can click on the "Senators" link at the top at OpenCongress - 113th Congress - Track bills, votes, senators, and representatives in the U.S. Congress and then on your Congressmen's website to the right. You will have to enter either your zip code, address and/or email at a few places. If someone knows an easier way, please post it here.

Thanks very much.
Carolac - thank you very much for posting us. They more people like you who post specific information that we can use in our writing campaigns really help. We must continue to be vocal opponents, and back up our stance. In another thread, Gunlover posted a host of great articles and references that elucidate so many points that show our country is declining as a result of these illegals. We have to continue to remind them of the costs to our country's current situation and the myriad of current and future problems these illegals have and will cause.

Bravo!!! - Dandiday
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