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Old 07-24-2014, 12:31 PM
 
Location: metropolis
734 posts, read 770,474 times
Reputation: 1426

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we need immigrants to work on farms when there are millions of unemployed americans who need those jobs. right.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:34 PM
 
Location: East Coast
673 posts, read 555,274 times
Reputation: 642
Default common sense is needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
I am an IT professional. Any experienced person with valuable skills WILL find work within weeks.
As Gunlover and BOS have posted, this is NOT the case. Drive past USAA in San Antonio on Fredericksburg road, and you'll drive through "Little India". More often than not, they are accepting lower wages. My DS and DD have many, many friends who graduated with various degrees in the IT field. Most are still unemployed...they're finding companies want more experience. Also, it's cheaper to hire from overseas countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
My Hispanic grandparents were born under the Spanish flag and became US citizens courtesy of the Jones Act. All their children were born under the US flag.

Yes, my non-Hispanic grandparents did come here legally in 1921 from Europe. They got jobs, went to night school to learn English and then became naturalized US citizens.

Everybody's ancestors in this country came from someplace else. Even the Native American Indians' ancestors came here from Asia.

100 years ago, we had room to expand. Plus, people who were illiterate---both Americans and immigrants---could find work as we were largely an agrarian and industrial society. We also didn't have any welfare so, for everybody, it was sink or swim.

Today, we have a population of over 300 million and are running out of potable water and buildable land. Our infrastructure is crumbling and there is no money to properly repair it, let alone add even more.

As I mentioned many times, we are very generous as we allow 1 million legal immigrants annually into this country. We need to seriously reduce this number if we are to have sustainable resources and good quality of life. All illegal aliens need to be sent packing.
Bravo, bravo!!! Ditto for my g'parents. You also were spot-on about the farming info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
I jsut read an article a couple of days ago about how IT workers are being replaced by Indians on H1-B visas, and were required to train their own replacements prior to being laid off!

Ever try to get help by phone from a company? Often you get someone from India whom you can barely understand, and their English isn't that good either. The last time this happened to me, in frustration I demanded to speak to an English speaking American. Guess what? They transferred my call to someone I could understand! I didn't think they would.
Another good one...see my comment above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You say that Hispanics are willing to take those jobs. Didn't you mean illegal aliens? Are Hispanic citizens and/or legal immigrant Hispanics refusing those jobs? No employer has the right to hire illegal aliens no matter what their excuse is. If they can't remain in business without resorting to breaking the law then they need to go out of business. Those who employ them just pass their social costs on to us so they are no bargain for the American taxpayer.
That's right...I agree. We definitely need to have a viable and legal work-visa program!!!

Continuing to rely on illegals for low-cost labor actually costs us MORE...and we have yet to realize the full impact of the trillions of dollars they will ultimately cost us over the next 5 to 20 years.

They cost us through fraudulent means of acquiring many types of aid, food, educational benefits, health care, etc. etc.
***So we ARE paying more for their services, regardless!!!! It comes out of our taxes through a different variety of ways, that's all.

When I lived in Europe for 10 years (3 countries)during the '90s, it was before, then during, the massive influx of Turkish, African, and Middle Eastern country refugees, illegal, and legal immigrants into the various countries in which we lived.

Yes, prices were so very much higher to begin with, as compared to the U.S. back then...for a variety of good reasons, but also (and mostly) because of their misguided policies.

Some examples of the high costs over there... a liter of gas was about $6 at the time. Everyday goods were a good 10 to 20% higher than in the U.S. Food was astronomically expensive!!!
Then, on top of that, was the VAT (Value-added Tax), which also varied from country to country...but figure on adding another 12 to 20% at that time.

Why so high? Because of "free" health care and a variety of ridiculous wages, paid leave/sick policies, and unrealistic pension plans.

For example, in Germany, my DH's secretary took 6 weeks of paid vacations, and as much paid sick leave as she wanted/needed (most was, er, "wanted"). I'll never forget walking into my husband's office to see him with a pen in his mouth typing, at his secretary's desk, doing her job (when he should have been doing his own work), week after week after week.

*** Over a 6-month span, he counted that she was "present" at her job a total of only 42 days!!!
I don't think I need to explain just why, then, this ratcheted up the costs of everyday living...nothing was getting done at work!!!

My neighbors in England went "on the dole" when they felt like it...one was a plumber, and exclaimed he threw out his back...so, back on the dole he went, whenever he felt like it. He felt "entitled", and often whined about England "owing" him for his hard work!
Even the rocker, Sting, admitted being "on the dole" quite a lot in his 20's, just because he couldn't find work as a musician/songwriter! (well, darn...get a job flipping burgers or kidney pie, for heaven's sake!!!).

Then, in Sweden, you have similar things going on...paid leave, paid maternity/paternity leave for 6 months, etc.

So, how is this all paid for? Via high tax rates (upwards of 50-70% or more) on the backs of the citizens who DO work.

NOW, there is the added problem and increased cost to all of these countries because of the influx of some illegals, but mostly from the legal immigrants/refugees from the other countries I mentioned above. These people are now worming their way into the same "dole" and bennies the host country's citizens are getting! This is unsustainable, folks. It's destroying many countries in Europe.

***So, what we in America must do, to prevent a similar scenario, is to close our borders, deport the illegals, enable a viable work-visa system that will benefit our country, and totally revamp our legal immigration requirements.

Take a look at the U.A.E. and some of their successful work visa programs. It has grown into a commercially and structurally successful federation of seven emirates. To date, most of its amazing growth has been through expatriate work visas. Just take a look at what they've built in Dubai! It's incredible.

Its population is around 8 million, with UAE nationals comprising only around 13%. The rest were mostly from Pakistan and India, on work visas to build up the country.

The UAE only recently relaxed their laws to allow expats to become UAE citizens. This includes the applicant having lived in the country for 20 years, speaking fluent Arabic, and not ever having been convicted of a crime.

Certainly, the U.S. can take a good look at what's happening in Europe, as well as elements of success seen in the UAE, in order to come up with some common-sense work-visa programs along with viable legal immigration policies that will ultimately lean in favor of building our country instead of tearing it down! (And yes, that includes getting rid of "O"-care...)

-Dandiday
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:47 PM
 
16,831 posts, read 8,758,287 times
Reputation: 4754
Don't blame the farmers or the business owners. Blame the consumers, meaning you and me not willing to pay $50/gallon for milk!
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:48 PM
 
16,831 posts, read 8,758,287 times
Reputation: 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by DandiDay View Post
As Gunlover and BOS have posted, this is NOT the case. Drive past USAA in San Antonio on Fredericksburg road, and you'll drive through "Little India". More often than not, they are accepting lower wages. My DS and DD have many, many friends who graduated with various degrees in the IT field. Most are still unemployed...they're finding companies want more experience. Also, it's cheaper to hire from overseas countries.



Bravo, bravo!!! Ditto for my g'parents. You also were spot-on about the farming info.



Another good one...see my comment above.




That's right...I agree. We definitely need to have a viable and legal work-visa program!!!

Continuing to rely on illegals for low-cost labor actually costs us MORE...and we have yet to realize the full impact of the trillions of dollars they will ultimately cost us over the next 5 to 20 years.

They cost us through fraudulent means of acquiring many types of aid, food, educational benefits, health care, etc. etc.
***So we ARE paying more for their services, regardless!!!! It comes out of our taxes through a different variety of ways, that's all.

When I lived in Europe for 10 years (3 countries)during the '90s, it was before, then during, the massive influx of Turkish, African, and Middle Eastern country refugees, illegal, and legal immigrants into the various countries in which we lived.

Yes, prices were so very much higher to begin with, as compared to the U.S. back then...for a variety of good reasons, but also (and mostly) because of their misguided policies.

Some examples of the high costs over there... a liter of gas was about $6 at the time. Everyday goods were a good 10 to 20% higher than in the U.S. Food was astronomically expensive!!!
Then, on top of that, was the VAT (Value-added Tax), which also varied from country to country...but figure on adding another 12 to 20% at that time.

Why so high? Because of "free" health care and a variety of ridiculous wages, paid leave/sick policies, and unrealistic pension plans.

For example, in Germany, my DH's secretary took 6 weeks of paid vacations, and as much paid sick leave as she wanted/needed (most was, er, "wanted"). I'll never forget walking into my husband's office to see him with a pen in his mouth typing, at his secretary's desk, doing her job (when he should have been doing his own work), week after week after week.

*** Over a 6-month span, he counted that she was "present" at her job a total of only 42 days!!!
I don't think I need to explain just why, then, this ratcheted up the costs of everyday living...nothing was getting done at work!!!

My neighbors in England went "on the dole" when they felt like it...one was a plumber, and exclaimed he threw out his back...so, back on the dole he went, whenever he felt like it. He felt "entitled", and often whined about England "owing" him for his hard work!
Even the rocker, Sting, admitted being "on the dole" quite a lot in his 20's, just because he couldn't find work as a musician/songwriter! (well, darn...get a job flipping burgers or kidney pie, for heaven's sake!!!).

Then, in Sweden, you have similar things going on...paid leave, paid maternity/paternity leave for 6 months, etc.

So, how is this all paid for? Via high tax rates (upwards of 50-70% or more) on the backs of the citizens who DO work.

NOW, there is the added problem and increased cost to all of these countries because of the influx of some illegals, but mostly from the legal immigrants/refugees from the other countries I mentioned above. These people are now worming their way into the same "dole" and bennies the host country's citizens are getting! This is unsustainable, folks. It's destroying many countries in Europe.

***So, what we in America must do, to prevent a similar scenario, is to close our borders, deport the illegals, enable a viable work-visa system that will benefit our country, and totally revamp our legal immigration requirements.

Take a look at the U.A.E. and some of their successful work visa programs. It has grown into a commercially and structurally successful federation of seven emirates. To date, most of its amazing growth has been through expatriate work visas. Just take a look at what they've built in Dubai! It's incredible.

Its population is around 8 million, with UAE nationals comprising only around 13%. The rest were mostly from Pakistan and India, on work visas to build up the country.

The UAE only recently relaxed their laws to allow expats to become UAE citizens. This includes the applicant having lived in the country for 20 years, speaking fluent Arabic, and not ever having been convicted of a crime.

Certainly, the U.S. can take a good look at what's happening in Europe, as well as elements of success seen in the UAE, in order to come up with some common-sense work-visa programs along with viable legal immigration policies that will ultimately lean in favor of building our country instead of tearing it down! (And yes, that includes getting rid of "O"-care...)

-Dandiday

Saudis and UAEs etc. they are destroying your own countries!
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:50 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,136 posts, read 21,221,063 times
Reputation: 23168
There are plenty of people in this country to do any job out there. No we do not need any reform. We just need for those who do not belong here to leave.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:10 PM
 
Location: East Coast
673 posts, read 555,274 times
Reputation: 642
Default Whaaaaaaa?????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Saudis and UAEs etc. they are destroying your own countries!

Wha????

Did you even read what I posted?

Perhaps I should rephrase...there are ELEMENTS of many country's SUCCESSFUL and restricted LEGAL immigration policies. Also, if needed, we can LEARN from other country's SUCCESSFUL work visa programs.

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks of the Arabs, I commented on their POLICIES on immigration, that's all!!!!

No where did I ever say one country's policies were perfect, nor did I say that any particular country's policies were all negative.

What I'm saying is, in a nutshell, the system we currently have is NOT WORKING.

Whether that means we eliminate any type of immigration, all the way up to work visas (or not) and making legal immigration more exclusive, we need a total revamping of our system before we sink!

---Dandiday
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:16 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,375,727 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by DandiDay View Post
Wha????

Did you even read what I posted?

Perhaps I should rephrase...there are ELEMENTS of many country's SUCCESSFUL and restricted LEGAL immigration policies. Also, if needed, we can LEARN from other country's SUCCESSFUL work visa programs.

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks of the Arabs, I commented on their POLICIES on immigration, that's all!!!!

No where did I ever say one country's policies were perfect, nor did I say that any particular country's policies were all negative.

What I'm saying is, in a nutshell, the system we currently have is NOT WORKING.

Whether that means we eliminate any type of immigration, all the way up to work visas (or not) and making legal immigration more exclusive, we need a total revamping of our system before we sink!

---Dandiday
You put this beautifully, and so very easy to understand. And yes we need a total revamping of our current system. Because we cannot continue on this very path.

Not hard to figure this out.
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:51 PM
 
31,992 posts, read 14,770,092 times
Reputation: 8540
Quote:
Originally Posted by bored chick View Post
we need immigrants to work on farms when there are millions of unemployed americans who need those jobs. right.
Most Americans can't or won't do farm labor jobs for a living as it is back breaking work in rural areas with no future. However, there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign workers so the growers have no excuse hiring illegal aliens.
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:53 PM
 
Location: East Coast
673 posts, read 555,274 times
Reputation: 642
Default trying to be succinct, as well as more clear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post


You put this beautifully, and so very easy to understand. And yes we need a total revamping of our current system. Because we cannot continue on this very path.

Not hard to figure this out.

Thank you, CJ... you ARE a jewel!!!

I didn't think it was difficult to explain. However, I DO type to much . My brain is 'way ahead of my typing abilities!

--Thank you for the vote of confidence!

--Finally, whatever the solutions are, I'm hoping they will be addressed and implemented...VERY soon!

---Dandiday
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:58 PM
 
31,992 posts, read 14,770,092 times
Reputation: 8540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
If all businesses who employ illegal aliens went out of business it would wreak havoc on the economy. This is not a viable solution. The only viable solution would be to provide visas to the migrant workers, at an american office down in mexico and other places, so they could cross the border legally and fill those vacant jobs that neither you and I are willing to do. This would also increase tax revenue by a wide margin.

If you're wondering why the heck the country tolerates high volumes of illegal aliens, the first reason is because America can't afford to deport all these people and still run efficiently. There might be "ulterior motives" to quote Gov. Perry but it does not change the fact that America needs migrant workers. Period. Either provide them visas and let them pay taxes or let the situation rot.
But most employers wouldn't have to go out of business. They instead would have to hire Americans or legal immigrants for a bit higher wage and just make less profit. What are these jobs that neither you or I or our American youth aren't willing to do? With the low wages and larger families of these illegal aliens their taxes would be a negative and anything they paid in wouldn't cover their large social costs.

Even Homeland Security has stated that it is cheaper to deport them than to allow them to remain here. The only migrant workers we need are for crop picking and there are already unlimited visas for those jobs and only 3% of illegals are doing those jobs.

Speaking of taxes. The tax credits for illegal aliens are costing us dearly and it wouldn't change if they were made legal.

Tax Credits for Illegal Immigrants
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