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Old 07-24-2014, 05:43 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Don't blame the farmers or the business owners. Blame the consumers, meaning you and me not willing to pay $50/gallon for milk!
Uh; 50 dollars a gallon? Maybe 5 dollars. Hell; word is the light dollar "organic" milk ain't any where near 50.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,062,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You say that Hispanics are willing to take those jobs. Didn't you mean illegal aliens? Are Hispanic citizens and/or legal immigrant Hispanics refusing those jobs? No employer has the right to hire illegal aliens no matter what their excuse is. If they can't remain in business without resorting to breaking the law then they need to go out of business. Those who employ them just pass their social costs on to us so they are no bargain for the American taxpayer.
^This is what it all boils down to. We subsidize and I would rather pay more for milk than to cover the expenses of an illegal immigrant. It would also help if the US cut some of the fat from public assistance so that some of the Americans couldn't so easily refuse to take a job that they feel is beneath them - why work when you can get a check without working! I wonder if those same eager illegal workers would be so eager if they also qualified for public assistance and some day, we may find out.

This is an interesting article about the costs of illegal aliens in OR: Do 'illegal aliens' cost Oregon $1 billion a year? | PolitiFact Oregon
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:11 PM
 
31,483 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
^This is what it all boils down to. We subsidize and I would rather pay more for milk than to cover the expenses of an illegal immigrant. It would also help if the US cut some of the fat from public assistance so that some of the Americans couldn't so easily refuse to take a job that they feel is beneath them - why work when you can get a check without working! I wonder if those same eager illegal workers would be so eager if they also qualified for public assistance and some day, we may find out.

This is an interesting article about the costs of illegal aliens in OR: Do 'illegal aliens' cost Oregon $1 billion a year? | PolitiFact Oregon
Well, there is some evidence that some are getting welfare through fraud and they can get welfare through their U.S. born children.
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:58 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
^This is what it all boils down to. We subsidize and I would rather pay more for milk than to cover the expenses of an illegal immigrant. It would also help if the US cut some of the fat from public assistance so that some of the Americans couldn't so easily refuse to take a job that they feel is beneath them - why work when you can get a check without working! I wonder if those same eager illegal workers would be so eager if they also qualified for public assistance and some day, we may find out.

This is an interesting article about the costs of illegal aliens in OR: Do 'illegal aliens' cost Oregon $1 billion a year? | PolitiFact Oregon
That article states the biggest factor. No Illegal Alien Parents = no kids of Illegal Alien Parents no matter their status.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:57 AM
 
16,694 posts, read 8,639,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; 50 dollars a gallon? Maybe 5 dollars. Hell; word is the light dollar "organic" milk ain't any where near 50.
If the farmers have to pay American workers "decent wage," 50 dollars/gallon of milk is not far fetched. As long as we are willing to pay $50, I am sure they will not need the illegals.
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:04 AM
 
31,483 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
If the farmers have to pay American workers "decent wage," 50 dollars/gallon of milk is not far fetched. As long as we are willing to pay $50, I am sure they will not need the illegals.
Then all the milk would just sit on the shelves and milk would not go up that much paying a legal worker a fair wage. Only 3% of illegals are doing farm work anyway.
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:10 PM
 
1,037 posts, read 1,478,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
The farmers explain no americans are willing to work at their farms therefore they have to resort to hiring illegal workers or be pushed out of business. The reporter drives to an unemployment center and proposes jobs at a dairy farm to unemployed americans and none will accept the offer but one lady.
No Americans are willing to do that work for the wages offered. Pay enough and people will do pretty much anything.
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Old 07-25-2014, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
If the farmers have to pay American workers "decent wage," 50 dollars/gallon of milk is not far fetched. As long as we are willing to pay $50, I am sure they will not need the illegals.
Grew up on a dairy farm. I live in dairy country in PA. I do a lot of work on these farms on the side. Mechanical repairs etc. I can't think of any that has illegals working on them. Ankle deep in Cow manure? None. That is what barn cleaners took care of way back when. Before that you had drops. Besides that no dairy farm would pass inspection if they were that filthy. No load of milk would pass the bacteria count if they were that dirty.
$50 a gallon never. Be glad dairy farmers didn't get the same cost of living increases the rest of us get. In 1981 farmers got $13.00 for a hundred pounds of milk. They get paid by the pound. Roughly 8.6 pounds to the gallon. Or 11.5 gallons to the hundred. Today farmers get anywhere from $15 to 20 a hundred pounds. That is $1.54 a gallon if they get $17.00 a hundred. Farmers don't get to raise their prices. Only the fed can do that. Now 30 years ago Fuel was about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of today. A tractor cost 75% Equipment cost far less.
Illegals and agriculture. Only about 3% of all illegals work in agriculture. No Milk would not cost $50 a gallon without illegals. You are assuming that the wage savings by hiring illegals is passed on to the consumer. That is simply untrue.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:53 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
If the farmers have to pay American workers "decent wage," 50 dollars/gallon of milk is not far fetched. As long as we are willing to pay $50, I am sure they will not need the illegals.
Please post up a link saying milk will hit 50 dollars a gallon.

How much does a gallon of milk cost in Sweden This link says milk would be about 5 or 6 dollars a gallon in other countries like Sweden which ain't much more than in the US in 2014.
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Old 07-26-2014, 08:27 AM
 
Location: NoVA
836 posts, read 1,126,650 times
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The problem is that the video makes no distinction between legal immigrant, a legal non-immigrant, an illegal alien; the impact each of the three have on the economy and the goal of the employee. Another issue is it fails to address is the huge defects in the immigration reform that was offered last year. The final issue I noticed is that they chose to showcase an area of NY where unemployment levels are high. In part because the cost of living is low, the state benefits are high and the people there are well educated while the opportunity for skilled employment is low.

Before you ask, I'm from WNY. I know the area well.

The farmers need employees. They don't really have enough money to band together and hire a good lobby firm because they spend their money on cooperatives more focused on production and selling prices. Visas cost money and some categories aren't covered (like dairy farmers), while others just need seasonal help. And I understand there are many other industries which need foreign workers because the skill isn't available in the US or US workers aren't willing. I don't mean IT people. I mean things like tailors. That's a skill Americans don't have, but which many people from other countries have. And note, I said tailors, not sewing machine operators.

Back to the three groups. A legal immigrant is a green card holder who (hopefully) becomes a citizen, and thereby, an American. Which makes them eligible to work for anyone, anywhere in the U.S. As soon as that farm worker gets his green card, he's going to demand a raise or look for better employment because he can. That's part of being an American. You have upward mobility. It's a beautiful thing which brought (and brings) people here.

The reason why the farmers have an illegal alien on the farm for 10+ years is for the very fact that they are an illegal alien and have limited employment options. The employee would not stay on the farm if he had better options.

The problem with the reform package offered last year is that it's contains so many pork provisions and bad policy, that no reasonable person would accept it. Which is why Boehner is advocating for piece meal. A reasonable piece meal approach example would include something that would help these farmers get employees with a provision that places a penalty on any farmer who knowingly hires more illegals despite the readily availability of legal workers.

An unreasonable approach would be granting 10,000 dairy workers a green card when only 1,000 temporary employees are needed. That is 9,000 cases of low skilled and unwanted people who have committed fraud to be part of the 10,000. And passing something like that invites 27,000 more illegal aliens to try it.

The bill, as it is, though it might provide help for the farmers, also includes lack of enforcement addressing the illegals that follow after the reform. I.E. what brought us 3 million illegals in the 80's has now ballooned to 11 million or more. Additionally, it imposes so few obligation on the people, that it really is amnesty. It doesn't even charge them the cost of processing their criminal checks and documents, little penalty for fraud, reduces the statute of limitations on crimes and fraud, and fails to recognize the dangers of some crimes (DUI). It also fails to properly address back taxes and the availability of public money being used for social services on people who haven't contributed to the funds. Also known as the affidavit of support. These are just some of the problems I noted with the bill and I haven't even read all 788 pages.

Reform should have a provision for people who want to work in the U.S. and allow some form of long term immigration to keep the flow of workers coming in but allowing upward mobility. That's not amnesty. Amnesty is granting the 11 million people already here some sort of permanent and protected status. They do not deserve that. As understandable and sad as a few stories are, they are in violation of the law and it's a knowing decision on their part to do so.

A long term immigration plan would might include working 3-10 years in the necessary business and then allowing them to obtain a green card (at a reasonable price), with limits determined by economic needs, as opposed to arbitrary numbers set every 10-20 years based on country of origin. The employment history should be well documented, and the time spent in and out of the U.S. should be factored in as well. Those who choose to pursue permanent residency may choose to do so. Those who choose to send their money to the home country may choose to do so as well. Social security benefits need to be better monitored so that those who choose to bring people into the U.S. or send their retirement money in another country, are not able to draw more from the system than they put in.

It's starting from scratch, but doing it the right way.

Additionally, I wanted to say is that WNY has a very low cost of living. You can get a 2 bed apartment in those areas for under $500 a month. When you realize that the benefits issued by the state are highly affected by the cost of living in New York City, you understand why there's a huge problem with people who live in PA, OH, MI, MN etc, who keep a PO box in New York. When you're getting $600 a month in rent, $300 a month in food stamps, $200 a month for heat and $50 a month for water, you're talking 1150 a month. $9 an hour is $1440 a month, less taxes (Which are very high in NY, again due to NYC). You'd be a fool to work in WNY for $9 an hour if the state gives you $1050 a month, tax free. That's not even including the free "emergency" cell phones or the free health care the state operates for children.

Finally, I wanted to point out the issue of alien smuggling. That person who was driving them around was indeed alien smuggling. I have zero sympathy for him or the illegal aliens who employed him as a driver. There is a difference between helping a fellow human out by bringing them food and being the vessel for illegal activity. I seriously doubt he was personal friends with both car loads of the people he was transporting and only had the innocent desire to help a friend. It's possible of course. But not likely. Not with two car loads.

Last edited by mrskay662000; 07-26-2014 at 08:45 AM..
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