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Old 08-11-2014, 05:49 AM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,210,401 times
Reputation: 11578

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire600 View Post
Actually no we don't and the folks who are harmed the most are blacks and other minorities that compete for the same jobs as illegals. The irony is that these same people voted the very folks into office that support illegals. The Democratic Party is just a howl to watch. People voting for their own destruction.
Wrong. If that the case, we would see, to this day, large numbers of black people working these jobs. We don;t, and employers had to fill in the gap, somehow. When Georgia (or was it Alabama?) created the law that allowed local police to detain suspected illegal immigrants and turn them over to ICE, many illegals left and nobody came to pick the crops. They rotted in the field. So, I don't buy the notion that if the illegals weren't here, then blacks would work. The illegals are here precisely BECAUSE blacks, and other low income whites, don't want to do these jobs
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:51 PM
 
11,598 posts, read 5,567,860 times
Reputation: 9920
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Wrong. If that the case, we would see, to this day, large numbers of black people working these jobs. We don;t, and employers had to fill in the gap, somehow. When Georgia (or was it Alabama?) created the law that allowed local police to detain suspected illegal immigrants and turn them over to ICE, many illegals left and nobody came to pick the crops. They rotted in the field. So, I don't buy the notion that if the illegals weren't here, then blacks would work. The illegals are here precisely BECAUSE blacks, and other low income whites, don't want to do these jobs

Oh please! The farmers who used the guest worker program had no problems getting their crops picked. It was the sleazy farmers who refused to use the guest worker program and instead opted for cheap, exploitable, illegal labor that had problems when AL and GA got tough on illegals. Those sleazy farmers reaped what they sowed.

Think about this, please---Farms are in rural areas, right? So how is someone who is unemployed but lives in an urban area going to get to the farms? Most poor people either have no transportation or have old, unreliable cars. If they drive their own cars, how much would be left for them after they pay for gas?

When I lived in Puerto Rico as a teen, one summer the word got out that they were looking for people to pick coffee. I would have gladly done it but had no way to get to the farms from the San Juan area. Our family only had one car which my dad needed to get to work. People who wanted to work in the fields were told that if they could get to either (I forget which) Corozal or Morovis, there would be a bus to get them to the fields. I had no way to get even there.

So, stop buying into the lie that crops rotted in the fields. As I said, if this did happen, it happened to the sleazy farmers.
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,941,176 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Wrong. If that the case, we would see, to this day, large numbers of black people working these jobs. We don;t, and employers had to fill in the gap, somehow. When Georgia (or was it Alabama?) created the law that allowed local police to detain suspected illegal immigrants and turn them over to ICE, many illegals left and nobody came to pick the crops. They rotted in the field. So, I don't buy the notion that if the illegals weren't here, then blacks would work. The illegals are here precisely BECAUSE blacks, and other low income whites, don't want to do these jobs
The farmers got caught cheating. They could have applied for more work permits, but instead opted for illegal immigrant labor.
Only about 3% of all illegals work in agriculture.
The people they displaced were construction workers, Hotel staff, kitchen staff and grounds and services as well as other lower skilled jobs.. They didn't legals because legals were lazy or unwilling to work. They replaced legals by low balling the wages. Illegals can work so cheap because they don't have to pay all the taxes. Add to this 3 or families living in a single family dwelling.
We not only owe illegals nothing, we will be much better off without them.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:27 AM
 
3,538 posts, read 2,184,254 times
Reputation: 1887
I don't have time to read all the posts here yet since I am happily and gainfully employed, but a few thoughts.

First, I have done this for a living in the last 6 years. In San Diego, within an hour of the city this job pays $15/hour, plus benefits. The lack of American applicants seems more due to the low unemployment rate and another reason I will get to later. In San Diego, the customers are happy to purchase all the available local milk supply at the needed higher prices knowing that the farmers pay better.

OP, you should go into PR for Monsanto, you are making their case to the letter.

OP, you cite upstate NY, I may guess Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse. In the further rural areas outlying those towns, $10/hr, even today will get you a decent living. I have lived in Erie, PA and I KNOW, you can live real good there on $10.

But anyhow, there is a way to solve this problem without importing illegals AND save taxpayer money: Don't offer 104 weeks of unemployment benefits ever again! That, and stop charging such high taxes in New York to support social programs so that $10 will go even further.

And BTW, since someone cited the CD employment thread about H1-B visas and high tech jobs, make sure you check out where HP just got busted over 10K Hi-B Visas in San Francisco. Seems they told the feds they had no qualified US applicants. They just forgot to mention that at interviews they specifically to Americans they were not hiring US Citizens AND the were offering $9/hr for jobs requiring a Masters in Computer Science.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,177,768 times
Reputation: 5685
We could use educated immigrants not uneducated jungle dweller types....just sayin. Where the heck are they going to pick fruit and veggies in CA with the draught wiping out most of the farm goods? Not enough restaurants to hire millions of them. So we just created another layer of welfare class citizens to compete with the poor in this country for the few benefits we have remaining....not enough on the table to pass around anymore. Yes, the black populace will suffer the most from job loss and welfare cuts. The poor white trash that supported this administration can just go to hell as far as I am concerned...they will just have to share more.
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:34 PM
 
13 posts, read 21,846 times
Reputation: 11
Legal (non-asylum) immigration is a direct product of one of two things: the capitalist greed to extract every last dollar of profit (the HP example above), or (as it used to be back in the 70s and 80s) dire shortage of personnel with critical skills (e.g. the medical profession). In either case, countrymen of the very people complaining here are at fault. If you had the list of every company that hires immigrants or pays them artificially low wages, would you stop associating yourselves with them? Walmart, Apple, Microsoft, Dole, HP, a number of coffee or chocolate companies, ... the list goes on. Can you genuinely argue that these companies need every immigrant they've hired?

As for illegal immigrants, how often have you been to a late night Dunkin', or taken a late night local bus? How many citizens would be willing to work 7, 8, 9 dollars an hour jobs so that these "essential" services continue to operate? How many citizens currently out of job would consider getting at least some income in by packing boxes at Walmart, or cleaning out the local farmer's market after hours? How many citizens are willing to let go of the sense of entitlement, only because of the economic conditions, and take the first job they're offered?

Finally, how many posters here know about the Next Gen Science Standards and what's going on in Wyoming and Oklahoma?

Wyoming rejects science education standards over climate change | Ars Technica
"Reality, legislator argues, needs to comport with the state's economic interests.".

Oklahoma House Committee Rejects Science Standards Over Teaching The 'Hyperbole' Of Climate Change | ThinkProgress

Admittedly, these are only a couple of examples. But, given the relative standard of school education here versus in China/Singapore, etc., it's not hard to see why some of this is hitting the axe on one's own foot.

It's easy to underestimate and dismiss the hard work that illegal immigrants put in fields and grocery stores and supermarkets, things essential to keep the engine of our daily lives chugging. Seeking a middle path between the extremes of citizenship and deportation isn't an unfair ask.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:26 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,350,866 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ermover View Post
Legal (non-asylum) immigration is a direct product of one of two things: the capitalist greed to extract every last dollar of profit (the HP example above), or (as it used to be back in the 70s and 80s) dire shortage of personnel with critical skills (e.g. the medical profession). In either case, countrymen of the very people complaining here are at fault. If you had the list of every company that hires immigrants or pays them artificially low wages, would you stop associating yourselves with them? Walmart, Apple, Microsoft, Dole, HP, a number of coffee or chocolate companies, ... the list goes on. Can you genuinely argue that these companies need every immigrant they've hired?

As for illegal immigrants, how often have you been to a late night Dunkin', or taken a late night local bus? How many citizens would be willing to work 7, 8, 9 dollars an hour jobs so that these "essential" services continue to operate? How many citizens currently out of job would consider getting at least some income in by packing boxes at Walmart, or cleaning out the local farmer's market after hours? How many citizens are willing to let go of the sense of entitlement, only because of the economic conditions, and take the first job they're offered?

Finally, how many posters here know about the Next Gen Science Standards and what's going on in Wyoming and Oklahoma?

Wyoming rejects science education standards over climate change | Ars Technica
"Reality, legislator argues, needs to comport with the state's economic interests.".

Oklahoma House Committee Rejects Science Standards Over Teaching The 'Hyperbole' Of Climate Change | ThinkProgress

Admittedly, these are only a couple of examples. But, given the relative standard of school education here versus in China/Singapore, etc., it's not hard to see why some of this is hitting the axe on one's own foot.

It's easy to underestimate and dismiss the hard work that illegal immigrants put in fields and grocery stores and supermarkets, things essential to keep the engine of our daily lives chugging. Seeking a middle path between the extremes of citizenship and deportation isn't an unfair ask.
Uh; maybe if wages went UP and entitlement programs went DOWN we'd see lots more US citizens doing those jobs. 1 way to find out is to cut OFF most immigration and really come down hard on illegal aliens using every legal trick in the book plus change the law to stop birthright citizenship for anchor babies.
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:06 AM
 
31,942 posts, read 14,712,394 times
Reputation: 8518
Quote:
Originally Posted by ermover View Post
Legal (non-asylum) immigration is a direct product of one of two things: the capitalist greed to extract every last dollar of profit (the HP example above), or (as it used to be back in the 70s and 80s) dire shortage of personnel with critical skills (e.g. the medical profession). In either case, countrymen of the very people complaining here are at fault. If you had the list of every company that hires immigrants or pays them artificially low wages, would you stop associating yourselves with them? Walmart, Apple, Microsoft, Dole, HP, a number of coffee or chocolate companies, ... the list goes on. Can you genuinely argue that these companies need every immigrant they've hired?

As for illegal immigrants, how often have you been to a late night Dunkin', or taken a late night local bus? How many citizens would be willing to work 7, 8, 9 dollars an hour jobs so that these "essential" services continue to operate? How many citizens currently out of job would consider getting at least some income in by packing boxes at Walmart, or cleaning out the local farmer's market after hours? How many citizens are willing to let go of the sense of entitlement, only because of the economic conditions, and take the first job they're offered?

Finally, how many posters here know about the Next Gen Science Standards and what's going on in Wyoming and Oklahoma?

Wyoming rejects science education standards over climate change | Ars Technica
"Reality, legislator argues, needs to comport with the state's economic interests.".

Oklahoma House Committee Rejects Science Standards Over Teaching The 'Hyperbole' Of Climate Change | ThinkProgress

Admittedly, these are only a couple of examples. But, given the relative standard of school education here versus in China/Singapore, etc., it's not hard to see why some of this is hitting the axe on one's own foot.

It's easy to underestimate and dismiss the hard work that illegal immigrants put in fields and grocery stores and supermarkets, things essential to keep the engine of our daily lives chugging. Seeking a middle path between the extremes of citizenship and deportation isn't an unfair ask.
Most of the jobs you mentioned Americans are willing to do for a fair wage. So the answer to all of your questions is, yes! It doesn't matter how hard someone works if they are breaking the law by doing so then that is the only thing that counts. Working under a fake or stolen ID is a felony also. As for illegal aliens being needed to work in the fields that has been debunked in here over and over. There are unlimited visas for legal, foreign crop pickers.

It is unfair to make them legal because Americans need the jobs they are holding and we don't need the added population growth to our society permanently putting more strain our social and natural resources. These illegals are low wage earners, uneducated and our taxes would have to subsidize them in order to survive. Taxes that should go to our own poor and needy. And finally, they shouldn't be rewarded for breaking our immigration laws by allowing them to remain here under any lawful status.
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Old 08-28-2014, 10:16 AM
 
4,743 posts, read 8,475,594 times
Reputation: 4038
I disagree with the OP's premise that America needs immigrants. IMO we have too many people chasing too few jobs. Halting illegal immigration and limiting legal immigration (to spouses / children) would jump start the economy by putting Americans back to work.
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Old 08-28-2014, 10:44 AM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,210,401 times
Reputation: 11578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reactionary View Post
I disagree with the OP's premise that America needs immigrants. IMO we have too many people chasing too few jobs. Halting illegal immigration and limiting legal immigration (to spouses / children) would jump start the economy by putting Americans back to work.
Majority of immigrants are already spouses/children. Why limit work visas? I know a few people here from Japan that more than deserve to stay here, but thanks to Filipinos cornering the market in foreign RNs, they can't stay.
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