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Old 12-27-2007, 08:58 PM
 
902 posts, read 507,167 times
Reputation: 184

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
I find it completely silly to talk about criminal aliens. Illegals come to America to work. There are criminal illegals, there are criminal legals. Most illegals I know work two and three jobs to support their families they are living the American Dream. If you think they are on welfare, you have not paid attention to the state of Welfare in the US. These people come here to work because large companies want them. Large companies pay politicians to prevent reform.
be sure to tell that piece of fantasy to the illegals who kill, rape, and all other kinds of criminal activity. Never forget to tell the ones who sell and buy and use the forged and stolen identities, being all fenoies by the way. Yeah, they come here just to work. That would be why the females have their kids as soon as possible so they can have an anchor in this country and collect benefits they have no right to. Wromng argument there. Try another one. I would think it would be easier to stop loving the criminals.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:05 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
9,674 posts, read 9,497,878 times
Reputation: 6785
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
I find it completely silly to talk about criminal aliens. Illegals come to America to work. There are criminal illegals, there are criminal legals. Most illegals I know work two and three jobs to support their families they are living the American Dream. If you think they are on welfare, you have not paid attention to the state of Welfare in the US. These people come here to work because large companies want them. Large companies pay politicians to prevent reform.
Coming here to work does not make it ok. There are people from all over the world who want to come here to work. People from even worse s%*tholes than Mexico. Why should we reward people who come illegally when we can reward the people who respect our laws of entry? Being a hard worker does not excuse their actions. Even if they are not on welfare, most don't pay taxes and we have to pick up the tab for their children's education and their health care. Current estimates are 12 mil illegal aliens(possibly closer to 20 mil). If it cost 10k a year to educate 1 child, and if 10% are treated in the ER imagine the huge cost to the American tax payer.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:27 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,712,695 times
Reputation: 350
It is true that they are here illegally, and that they should not be, but, the fact is, they are here, and they contribute to the economy.
Quote:
Even if they are not on welfare, most don't pay taxes and we have to pick up the tab for their children's education and their health care.
Yes they do pay taxes, they pay sales taxes just like everyone else, when they buy gas they are paying fuel taxes, they have federal and state (where applicable) withholding on their pay checks, they contribute to fica, just like everyone else, they have SS withholding

Now there are cash workers, who do not have withholding, but they are a small minority just as with citizens, but they too pay sales taxes.

All pay property taxes, either as owners or included in the cost of rental.

The story that hospitals on the border are going under because of illegals is extremely unproven. The costs for the poor, legal or not are covered under federal programs and should not be carried by the hospital.

In our area there is a hospital in trouble, it is in trouble because fiscal irresponsibility, not because of illegals, if it were in Brownsville Texas someone would claim it was due to illegals.

I pulled this from Snopes.com, Discussing two Texas hospitals,
"
Administrators from both hospital systems indicated that some of the common assumptions made about immigrants who seek medical care at those facilities (and at other Texas hospitals) are misconceptions:
While Texas border hospitals often get "anchor babies" — children of Mexican women who dart across the border to give birth to an American citizen — most illegal immigrants who go to major hospitals in Texas can show that they have been living here for years, said Ernie Schmid, policy director at the Texas Hospital Association. Many immigrant families have mixed status; often a patient with no documents has a spouse or children who are legal.

Most immigrant patients have jobs and pay taxes, through paycheck deductions or property taxes included in their rent, administrators at the Dallas and Fort Worth hospitals said. At both institutions, they have a better record of paying their bills than low-income Americans do, the administrators said.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:46 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
9,674 posts, read 9,497,878 times
Reputation: 6785
[quote=greatbasinguide;2348072]
Quote:
It is true that they are here illegally, and that they should not be, but, the fact is, they are here, and they contribute to the economy.
How much you want to bet they consume more resources than they contribute?


Quote:
Now there are cash workers, who do not have withholding, but they are a small minority.
I'd love to see a link that actually proves this with actual numbers. Snopes just doesn't cut it. I need to see real figures.

Quote:
The story that hospitals on the border are going under because of illegals is extremely unproven. The costs for the poor, legal or not are covered under federal programs and should not be carried by the hospital.
First of all, were not just talking about border hospitals here.
Secondly, Charity care pays cents on the dollar. Any hospital with an abundance of charity care is doomed. The only ones that can survive this are large county medical centers with lots of state funding that also adds to the tax burden.

Quote:
In our area there is a hospital in trouble, it is in trouble because fiscal irresponsibility, not because of illegals, if it were in Brownsville Texas someone would claim it was due to illegals.

I pulled this from Snopes.com, Discussing two Texas hospitals,
"
Administrators from both hospital systems indicated that some of the common assumptions made about immigrants who seek medical care at those facilities (and at other Texas hospitals) are misconceptions:
While Texas border hospitals often get "anchor babies" — children of Mexican women who dart across the border to give birth to an American citizen — most illegal immigrants who go to major hospitals in Texas can show that they have been living here for years, said Ernie Schmid, policy director at the Texas Hospital Association. Many immigrant families have mixed status; often a patient with no documents has a spouse or children who are legal.

Most immigrant patients have jobs and pay taxes, through paycheck deductions or property taxes included in their rent, administrators at the Dallas and Fort Worth hospitals said. At both institutions, they have a better record of paying their bills than low-income Americans do, the administrators said.
This is talking about immigrants, not ILLEGAL immigrants. I have no problem with the former.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:55 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,712,695 times
Reputation: 350
Read the paragraph where it says Most Illegal Immigrants. You see, many people don't discriminate each time they type it.

Look, you can complain vociferously, it ain't going to change it. I can tell you about the hundreds of illegal families I have had contact with over the past four years (and no, none of them were or are employees of the family business, if you paid attention to my nom de plume it should be obvious that I am based in Nevada) These families came here to work, they work, mom and dad, and as I said, sometimes two and three jobs each. I know a guy, illegal, been here for 30 years now, he works seven days a week, five as a custodian, two as a casino dealer. He built his own house, and did the excavating with a shovel and wheel barrow. For all the unAmerican like fuming and whining about those nasty illegals, he is the more common story.

Some years ago I hired a couple of day laborers to do some excavating for me, they filled the wheel barrow and ran with it to the dump site, then ran back. The labor contractor told me they did that because they were fresh from Mexico and hadn't learned to slow down yet.

Ozark-baby forgets that the vast majority of criminals in the US in or out of prison are citizens.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:13 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,715,428 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post

The story that hospitals on the border are going under because of illegals is extremely unproven. The costs for the poor, legal or not are covered under federal programs and should not be carried by the hospital.

In our area there is a hospital in trouble, it is in trouble because fiscal irresponsibility, not because of illegals,
if it were in Brownsville Texas someone would claim it was due to illegals.

HAHAHAHAHA! You think the federal government covers the medical bills of illegals! What a hoot!
I sure do wish my husband wasn't on call tonight. I would LOVE to unleash him on that one! HA!
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:27 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,712,695 times
Reputation: 350
In a pair of June 2006 articles, the Morning News reported that a recent patient survey indicated 70% of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants (while a similar New York Times article pegged the yearly tally for 2005 as "at least 56%"). The hospital spent $70.7 million delivering babies born there in 2004, with taxpayers covering about 40% of the costs ($31.3 million) directly, and federal and state funds (primarily Medicaid) making up the remainder. Because of large payments from the Medicaid system, Parkland still ended 2004 with a $7.9 million surplus in obstetrics."

mmmm That would be 45 million in Federal Dollars
Quote:
You think the federal government covers the medical bills of illegals! What a hoot!
Argue with the above, not with me.
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Old 12-28-2007, 12:25 AM
 
307 posts, read 458,630 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
In a pair of June 2006 articles, the Morning News reported that a recent patient survey indicated 70% of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants (while a similar New York Times article pegged the yearly tally for 2005 as "at least 56%"). [/b]"

mmmm That would be 45 million in Federal Dollars

Argue with the above, not with me.


According to the site you quote and a little common sense an Illegal immigrant family COSTS the US money and/or takes away jobs from Americans.

The math is simple.

According to your own source the average woman was giving birth to her second child and was illegal.

Most states pay between $7000 and $11,000 a year per student K-12. Thus an average illegal immigrant family within a few years will be costing the government between $14,000 and 22,000 a Year assuming the firt child isn't already costing us $7000. Even the hospital birth alone cost us $4500 according to your article.

According to various websites State and Federal Taxes for a family of 4 are about $3500 a year for a family making $28,000, and $7000 for the same family making $75,000 a year.

In other words unless the illegal immigrant is making $75000 a Year just one school aged child costs the US more then the family contributes. Add in both kids and that family had better make well over $100K to not be a burden to the system. That’s not counting all the other dollars used by the family (Childhood health care, Roads, Air quality, Crime, Etc).

Sure if you know immigrants making $75K a year then they might start to pay there own way, however now your talking about $20-25 an hour wage and most Americans will do almost any job for that price.


Random U
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:32 AM
 
Location: NW California
58 posts, read 91,482 times
Reputation: 10
"Police in suburban Scottsdale have begun routinely asking for proof of citizenship from EVERY SUSPECT THEY ARREST and turning those who are in this country illegally over to federal immigration officials." [emphasis added

Seems like something was missing in the OP. In CA, TX, & NY identifying arestees that are not legally in the country has long been par for the course.

What happens in AZ to those not subject to arrest?
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:44 AM
 
Location: NW California
58 posts, read 91,482 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomU View Post
According to the site you quote and a little common sense an Illegal immigrant family COSTS the US money and/or takes away jobs from Americans.

The math is simple.

According to your own source the average woman was giving birth to her second child and was illegal.

Most states pay between $7000 and $11,000 a year per student K-12. Thus an average illegal immigrant family within a few years will be costing the government between $14,000 and 22,000 a Year assuming the firt child isn't already costing us $7000. Even the hospital birth alone cost us $4500 according to your article.

According to various websites State and Federal Taxes for a family of 4 are about $3500 a year for a family making $28,000, and $7000 for the same family making $75,000 a year.

In other words unless the illegal immigrant is making $75000 a Year just one school aged child costs the US more then the family contributes. Add in both kids and that family had better make well over $100K to not be a burden to the system. Thatís not counting all the other dollars used by the family (Childhood health care, Roads, Air quality, Crime, Etc).

Sure if you know immigrants making $75K a year then they might start to pay there own way, however now your talking about $20-25 an hour wage and most Americans will do almost any job for that price.


Random U
So any family not making 100k is sucking from the taxpayers? How do you fill the same jobs with citizens and get rid of the "costs" & "crisis"?

You don't, but at least the "third-worlders" are gone and your lifestyle pref can infringe on the rest of us.

Papers please.
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