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Old 08-29-2014, 11:07 AM
 
3,032 posts, read 2,861,792 times
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Mexican president calls US ‘the other Mexico’; warns US govs to back immigration ‘reform’ - BizPac Review

I guess that's that...
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:33 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
3,730 posts, read 3,681,072 times
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..well, lets not forget how the US obtained what is today California, Arizona and New Mexico in 1848. Good ole ambitious President Polk with his manifest destiny.

I love the US as much as I love Mexico but I see it as karma, what goes around comes around even if its 160 years later.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:58 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
..well, lets not forget how the US obtained what is today California, Arizona and New Mexico in 1848. Good ole ambitious President Polk with his manifest destiny.

I love the US as much as I love Mexico but I see it as karma, what goes around comes around even if its 160 years later.

This crap again? What are you, 15?

Can't wait for Spain to come knocking on Mexico's door, asking for their territory back.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:13 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
3,730 posts, read 3,681,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
This crap again? What are you, 15?

Can't wait for Spain to come knocking on Mexico's door, asking for their territory back.
I am 33 and I think history is VERY RELEVANT no matter where you are in the world. Don't you ever ask why things are the way they are today or do you just live for today?

The webs we weave today will have a profound effect on future generations. What do you suppose will happen 150 years from now?

Personally, I think Canada, Mexico, and the US will be one nation...but who knows really.
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Old 08-29-2014, 02:12 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
I am 33 and I think history is VERY RELEVANT no matter where you are in the world. Don't you ever ask why things are the way they are today or do you just live for today?

The history of how the US obtained it's Southwest territories has ZERO relevance to the illegal immigration debate.

The "opportunity" is not in the United States because of the land itself, but because of the political, legal and cultural framework that makes one side of the border thrive while the other side of the border languishes. If the border never moved, illegal immigrants would cross in Colorado, instead of Arizona.


Mexicans are not entitled to the land of the American southwest. They barely controlled it for twenty years, and for a time, were even ruled by the FRENCH (who, by the way, the US helped kick out for them by putting pressure on France to leave Mexico).

It is a special Mexican conceit that they "lost" the American southwest and that they are entitled to live there... but the land was never theirs anyway. It belonged to natives such as the Apache, who fought like hell against the Mexicans, because the land wasn't the Mexicans to control... and they COULDN'T control it, obviously.


BTW: Those Mexicans who ended up on the American side of the border when borders shifted have long since been integrated into American society and culture. Over a hundred years later we would expect that to happen. You will find little in common between those Spaniard-Mexican "Hispanics" of the American southwest that have been there for generations, and a newly arrived Chiapas Mexican.


Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16
Personally, I think Canada, Mexico, and the US will be one nation...but who knows really.

Canada wants no part of the USA's nonsense, and they are VERY strict on immigration. Mexico would be 100 million new welfare cases overnight. Nobody can afford that. It would drag the living situation for everyone in the US and Canada.
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:09 PM
 
31,486 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
..well, lets not forget how the US obtained what is today California, Arizona and New Mexico in 1848. Good ole ambitious President Polk with his manifest destiny.

I love the US as much as I love Mexico but I see it as karma, what goes around comes around even if its 160 years later.
The U.S. paid millions of dollars for those lands. Once you sell something you no longer have claims to it and have no viable reason to complain about it later or seek to take it back. Not only that but those who signed the deal on both sides are all dead now and has nothing to do with those alive today. There's no karma here only an illegal invasion.
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:58 PM
 
183 posts, read 157,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
..well, lets not forget how the US obtained what is today California, Arizona and New Mexico in 1848. Good ole ambitious President Polk with his manifest destiny.

I love the US as much as I love Mexico but I see it as karma, what goes around comes around even if its 160 years later.
Do you want to reclaim California, Arizona and New Mexico as they are now, or as they were back in 1848 ? Back in 1848 there were no paved roads or freeways, no cell phones, no buildings, no cable tv, no welfare, no food stamps, no anchor babies, no free health care for the illegals, no politician had to be politically correct towards illegals or people from Mexico.

Is this all you want, bare empty land ? Mexico has all you could ever want and hope for.
Is there something else you want ?
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Old 08-29-2014, 04:01 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
3,730 posts, read 3,681,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
The history of how the US obtained it's Southwest territories has ZERO relevance to the illegal immigration debate.

The "opportunity" is not in the United States because of the land itself, but because of the political, legal and cultural framework that makes one side of the border thrive while the other side of the border languishes. If the border never moved, illegal immigrants would cross in Colorado, instead of Arizona.


Mexicans are not entitled to the land of the American southwest. They barely controlled it for twenty years, and for a time, were even ruled by the FRENCH (who, by the way, the US helped kick out for them by putting pressure on France to leave Mexico).

It is a special Mexican conceit that they "lost" the American southwest and that they are entitled to live there... but the land was never theirs anyway. It belonged to natives such as the Apache, who fought like hell against the Mexicans, because the land wasn't the Mexicans to control... and they COULDN'T control it, obviously.


BTW: Those Mexicans who ended up on the American side of the border when borders shifted have long since been integrated into American society and culture. Over a hundred years later we would expect that to happen. You will find little in common between those Spaniard-Mexican "Hispanics" of the American southwest that have been there for generations, and a newly arrived Chiapas Mexican.





Canada wants no part of the USA's nonsense, and they are VERY strict on immigration. Mexico would be 100 million new welfare cases overnight. Nobody can afford that. It would drag the living situation for everyone in the US and Canada.
This is a good retort, much better than the first. I will say that although most Americans have no desire to know how the US obtained the American Southwest and president Polk is pretty much forgotten in the grand scheme of US history, it still is very much in the mind of many Mexicans as they Celebrate Ninos Heroes day on Sept 13, to commemorate the cadets who fought US invading forces in Mexico City until they were killed. To Mexico, the war was much more profound and the memory lingers as the country was invaded right down into the capital.

That said, I hope I didn’t come across as trying to justify illegal immigration into the United States by bringing up the history between the two countries. I was merely trying to imply that the history between the two nations could be part of the reason why the US is somewhat lenient on immigration from Mexico, that and of course the cheap labor. It’s had a history on being lenient to country’s refugees with which it has had conflict with. It is just very ironic that little by little the US is becoming more Mexican (whether we like it or not) being that one time it basically forced Mexico to sell its land.

Although the history between the two nations doesn’t have a direct effect on immigration, the sentiment of an immigrant to simply come to the US illegally for the purposes of making some money and then returning home without ever having any real desire to have permanently resided in the US here or assimilating could be rooted in the two country’s history, which is an indirect effect.

My point is basically its kharma or irony, not to try to justify illegal immigration.
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:31 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
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Funny how Mexico does NOT want Guatemala back. It WAS also part of Mexico for about 20 years.

IMHO had Mexico LOST its war against Spain; Spain probably would've SOLD all of what's now Mexico to the US a few years later. Kinda like France and Louisiana in 1803.
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:39 PM
 
31,486 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8353
Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
This is a good retort, much better than the first. I will say that although most Americans have no desire to know how the US obtained the American Southwest and president Polk is pretty much forgotten in the grand scheme of US history, it still is very much in the mind of many Mexicans as they Celebrate Ninos Heroes day on Sept 13, to commemorate the cadets who fought US invading forces in Mexico City until they were killed. To Mexico, the war was much more profound and the memory lingers as the country was invaded right down into the capital.

That said, I hope I didn’t come across as trying to justify illegal immigration into the United States by bringing up the history between the two countries. I was merely trying to imply that the history between the two nations could be part of the reason why the US is somewhat lenient on immigration from Mexico, that and of course the cheap labor. It’s had a history on being lenient to country’s refugees with which it has had conflict with. It is just very ironic that little by little the US is becoming more Mexican (whether we like it or not) being that one time it basically forced Mexico to sell its land.

Although the history between the two nations doesn’t have a direct effect on immigration, the sentiment of an immigrant to simply come to the US illegally for the purposes of making some money and then returning home without ever having any real desire to have permanently resided in the US here or assimilating could be rooted in the two country’s history, which is an indirect effect.

My point is basically its kharma or irony, not to try to justify illegal immigration.
Mexicans alive today had nothing to do with the past so why are they complaining? It's because they can't seem to make anything out of their own country that they want ours. It's really that simple. If these reconquista types had a leg to stand on then why isn't the government of Mexico taking action with us over the past in their behalf? It's all the more reason to object to illegal and even legal immigration from Mexico if they are coming here with a chip on their shoulder filled with resentment over the past. Who needs them? Mexico/Mexicans were not "forced" to sell their land either.

Mexicans aren't coming here illegally and leaving after earning some money. They are remaining here. As I said, there is no karma but an illegal invasion into our country.
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