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Old 12-26-2007, 10:25 AM
 
29 posts, read 51,298 times
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I think yes, welfare and the ability to go undocumented.
you have the man working in his trade and the unmarried wife collecting for the kids.
Plus how many can they cram in one place. talk about buying power.
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:56 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Not sure of who coined the phrase "You can't have open borders in a welfare state", but most people today generally must admit to the simple truth of this fact. Certainly our generous social safety-net is a BIG factor in whether or not people decide to come here. This hold particularly true with Mexico, where there is little really life-threatening hunger, but little "welfare", either.

THe obvious reality of the situation is really beyond much serious argument. Offer ANYTHING "free", and you're going to attract plenty of folks who'll "take you up on" your offer. This would be true of ANY business or organization of any type---announce that your products or services are FREE, and prepare to see people forming lines all the way down the street--even if they don't live nearby.

Same goes for a country. Offer "free" benefits, medical care, etc., very LIBERAL law enforcement, the opportunity to "stay on" indefinitely, regardless of any laws to the contrary, and a considerable amount of public SYMPATHY for those who come---THEN top that off with the ability to make 6 or 10 times the actual income they made at home...and there should be little surprise when people show up by the busload to "get on the gravy train". I can't imagine that anyone doesn't "get" this.

Whether people actually make the final decision to pack up and leave home, ONLY because of our welfare state, or whether they come here wanting ONLY to work, is a moot point. No one will ever know if they'd come ANYWAY, if they could work but were denied any possibility of any sort of welfare benefits...OR if they'd come without being able to work, ONLY for the "freebies"....it's impossible to say. But I think it's pretty obvious that our generous system, PLUS our very benevolent, toothless immigration policies, certainly exacerbate the situation.
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:11 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Not sure of who coined the phrase "You can't have open borders in a welfare state",
It was Milton Friedman.
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:32 PM
 
1,252 posts, read 725,704 times
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...what he said was, " ......you can’t have free immigration and a welfare state."

But then, Milton Friedman also said,

" I would like to see a world in which you could have open immigration......"

" In principle, you ought to have completely open immigration."
.
..
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:36 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User 2 View Post
Milton Friedman also said,

" I would like to see a world in which you could have open immigration......"

" In principle, you ought to have completely open immigration."
.
..
Milton Friedman sounds like a very nice guy. I agree with him. I'd also like to see a world where food and clothing were free, and everyone treated each other fairly, and there was no need for police, locked doors, or money. Until then, I can only hope.
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:01 PM
 
1,252 posts, read 725,704 times
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Milton Friedman is lauded as the champion of free market economics.

But Milton Friedman recognized the difference between the idealized 'free market' and the real world.

As he said,

"Free markets work best when the transaction between two individuals affects only those individuals. But that isn't the fact. The fact is that, most often, a transaction between you and me affects a third party. That is the source of all problems for government. That is the source of all pollution problems, of the inequality problem."
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:02 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
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"Welfare" didn't "bring about" the illegal immigration problem... but it hasn't helped.

As someone mentioned before TANF (what we generally think of when we talk about "welfare") is temporary after Clinton's welfare reform.

However, things like foodstamps and WIC and free lunch programs (which are very necessary and good programs) haven't exactly helped thwart the "anchor baby" problem. What to do? Punish American babies because women are dropping their kids this side of the Rio Grande?
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