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Old 09-20-2014, 06:47 AM
 
31,837 posts, read 14,662,676 times
Reputation: 8486

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bpurrfect View Post
Another huge difference between now and the 1800's-to 1910 immigration eras, is the fact that back then, we had far smaller population, uninhabited land, and actually needed to populate our country to some degree. Then, we had about 95 % of the population living on family farms, but now it's reversed- 95 percent live in the cities, and we have lots of big cities, and several megacities.
We no longer have a sizable need for a larger population, so there's no actual good reason to continue to populate our country with large numbers of immigrants. We have replacement population growth and then some in terms of the birthrate. So it's not like we are shrinking in number either.
We need to recalculate the numbers we are now admitting, and factor in the estimated numbers of illegals; their numbers should also count in the immigrant quotas, because they are part of the number. More illegals really should necessitate fewer legals. Not fair at all, to the "legal Immigrants", but in terms of public policy decisionmaking, is necessary for this country.
We need to cut back on family reunifications also. If we are to retain our mainstream identity aka culture and language we need to return to diversification of our legal immigration quotas.
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Old 09-24-2014, 01:08 PM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
874 posts, read 971,050 times
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Why do we need immigration?

Because when people have the ability to move around and live where they want it benefits everyone.

Without that ability, you get a stagnant population that doesn't seek to better itself. It is hard to pack up your life and move somewhere else to seek employment to be able to provide for yourself, and people who do that are often much more motivated to "do a good job" than those who don't. It's easy to remain where you are and continue to take "unemployment" handouts because "you can't find a job", although you probably could find a job in another state or country.

We already have free movement between states, which shows that it would work at an even bigger level. What is the difference between an unemployed man who lives in North Carolina who can't find a job there, so he moves to California for work compared to an unemployed man who lives in Guatemala that can't find a job there, so he moves to California for work? There is none. So why is one okay but not the other? Because you are racist?

And if you break that down, what if people weren't allowed to go from North Carolina to California, or between states? How much worse would we be? How bad would a state like Michigan be with a ton of out-of-work auto workers and none of those jobs? How would they be able to open all these new technology jobs? You think former auto-employees can just learn how to write Java code? No way. So you could close the borders and just pay the auto workers unemployment and have all the new tech companies fail because there are not enough employees to work for them...

Or you could let the auto workers LEAVE and go down to Indiana and Tennessee (or even Japan or Germany), where there is still a demand for that kind of work, and then have some people from California and even India come in who have the skills needed for those tech companies. That's a lot of movement, but it keeps the economy running because everyone is able to go out and find work. Instead, maybe those excess programmers in California can't find work, they have to collect welfare. The auto workers don't have enough jobs in Michigan, they have to collect welfare. Forcing people to STAY in a place they don't belong (where they can't find work to support themselves) doesn't benefit them NOR anyone else who is there with them. Let people move around and find a place to work, everyone will be better off.

The larger the area of free movement, the better off everyone is. If Mexicans and Canadians were included in this, it would be even better than just the 50 states. If all of Latin America and the Caribbean were included, it would be even better, and if the whole world were included, it would be at maximum efficiency.
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Old 09-24-2014, 01:20 PM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
874 posts, read 971,050 times
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Also, if you don't think there is enough "room" in this country for more people, then YOU should be the one to leave, rather than trying to deny others the opportunity to come here.

I'm sure somewhere like Belarus, where there is an all white population with closed borders and no desire to change or improve themselves, would be much more to your liking. I've heard they also have pretty strict laws to control wages and welfare so that's right up your alley too.

But the rest of us would prefer to not live in Belarus - and to not turn the United States into Belarus either.
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Old 09-24-2014, 01:58 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,322,268 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
Also, if you don't think there is enough "room" in this country for more people, then YOU should be the one to leave, rather than trying to deny others the opportunity to come here.

I'm sure somewhere like Belarus, where there is an all white population with closed borders and no desire to change or improve themselves, would be much more to your liking. I've heard they also have pretty strict laws to control wages and welfare so that's right up your alley too.

But the rest of us would prefer to not live in Belarus - and to not turn the United States into Belarus either.
Please try THAT attitude in Mexico, Japan or most European countries if you're there illegally: they'd tell you to leave or else. NO country "needs" full on open immigration because that crap pushes down wages, especially for those people who CAN'T do "better" in education. Sheesh!

Would YOU like it if YOUR job was stolen by an illegal alien? IMHO you'd be pissed of big time.
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:32 PM
 
11,574 posts, read 5,547,013 times
Reputation: 9901
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
Also, if you don't think there is enough "room" in this country for more people, then YOU should be the one to leave, rather than trying to deny others the opportunity to come here.

I'm sure somewhere like Belarus, where there is an all white population with closed borders and no desire to change or improve themselves, would be much more to your liking. I've heard they also have pretty strict laws to control wages and welfare so that's right up your alley too.

But the rest of us would prefer to not live in Belarus - and to not turn the United States into Belarus either.

So, according to you, we should have unlimited legal and illegal immigration. Seriously? Do you really think that we have unlimited buildable land and potable water? Our infrastructure is crumbling and there isn't the money to properly repair it, let alone add it it.
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Old 09-24-2014, 05:00 PM
 
31,837 posts, read 14,662,676 times
Reputation: 8486
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
So, according to you, we should have unlimited legal and illegal immigration. Seriously? Do you really think that we have unlimited buildable land and potable water? Our infrastructure is crumbling and there isn't the money to properly repair it, let alone add it it.
I get amused when someone jumps in here and tries to claim that we are only for immigration from white countries. No, we are for limited immigration that is in keeping with our ability to provide them with jobs and resources without depleting those life sustaining elements from our own citizens. I have often said I am for diversity and that hasn't changed. So how would that equate to being for only "white" immigration? Some however call it diversity when we import from only one country or one ethnic group. That's not diversity in my book and illegal immigration is out of the question, period.
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Old 09-24-2014, 05:55 PM
 
10,026 posts, read 8,877,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFigureMeOut View Post
I think most Americans support controlled, legal immigration, I know I do. However when you have massive influxes of uneducated, unskilled people flooding across the border it becomes a drain on the system.

The biggest difference between immigration today and immigration in the late 1800's/early 1900's is back then if you didn't work, you didn't eat. There was no WIC, no EBT, no Medicaid and no Section 8 picking up the slack. There were no emergency rooms to walk into for free treatment and to walk out of without paying the bill. Having a slew of children didn't guarantee you an apartment, food, health care and a million other subsidies. So playing the "we're a nation of immigrants" game is pointless. It's apples and oranges.

Last year a school district cancelled a junior high Valentine's Day party because the student body was comprised of a high number of immigrant children and they were afraid they'd be "offended." So yeah, us Americans are getting a little pissy over having Christmas, the Flag, the National Anthem, God, holidays and other traditions taken away from us to spare your feelings.
I'm willing to bet the immigrants in that case weren't Mexicans. Their culture is like ours. However, that is a great point about everyone being offended and also about welfare. Years ago immigrants came with the realization of hard work. They knew they'd have to work like crazy and many became successful. Their kids were usually successful too and so on. Many of the immigrants today come just for welfare and there have been books passed around on how to get welfare when you first arrive. That needs to end. The Boston Bomber and his family ONLY came for the welfare, to steal (his mom was a shoplifter)and of course to be a terrorist. We don't need more like them.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:01 PM
 
31,837 posts, read 14,662,676 times
Reputation: 8486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou View Post
I'm willing to bet the immigrants in that case weren't Mexicans. Their culture is like ours. However, that is a great point about everyone being offended and also about welfare. Years ago immigrants came with the realization of hard work. They knew they'd have to work like crazy and many became successful. Their kids were usually successful too and so on. Many of the immigrants today come just for welfare and there have been books passed around on how to get welfare when you first arrive. That needs to end. The Boston Bomber and his family ONLY came for the welfare, to steal (his mom was a shoplifter)and of course to be a terrorist. We don't need more like them.
Unfortunately, that is true of so many illegal aliens. So unless most Americans are looking for government handouts rather than working I would say no their culture isn't like ours.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:06 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,322,268 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I get amused when someone jumps in here and tries to claim that we are only for immigration from white countries. No, we are for limited immigration that is in keeping with our ability to provide them with jobs and resources without depleting those life sustaining elements from our own citizens. I have often said I am for diversity and that hasn't changed. So how would that equate to being for only "white" immigration? Some however call it diversity when we import from only one country or one ethnic group. That's not diversity in my book and illegal immigration is out of the question, period.
Even the "white" country thing doesn't work with me and, I'm "white". If talking about most of Europe, Australia and Canada that's 1 thing. But the idea of letting in LOTS of Russians, uh, no. Because they do have a bad rep because of organized crime.

Better educated Black Africans than white Russian and so on gangsters here in the US.
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:23 PM
 
11,574 posts, read 5,547,013 times
Reputation: 9901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I get amused when someone jumps in here and tries to claim that we are only for immigration from white countries. No, we are for limited immigration that is in keeping with our ability to provide them with jobs and resources without depleting those life sustaining elements from our own citizens. I have often said I am for diversity and that hasn't changed. So how would that equate to being for only "white" immigration? Some however call it diversity when we import from only one country or one ethnic group. That's not diversity in my book and illegal immigration is out of the question, period.
Oldglory---If I could rep you again, I would!
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