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Old 09-06-2014, 11:52 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felines are superior View Post
why do people blame unemployment on immgrants, legal or otherwise?
the immigrants, the legal as well as the illegals, have to eat, so you need more factories and supermarkets, for instance. they also wear clothes, which means more factories and stores.
in a big city, it's much easier to find a job than in a small town. and in a big city you have more people. the more people, the more jobs. just because they're new or even illegal doesnt mean they won't bring in jobs.
but in a big city you have more people who would take your job away, and still you have more jobs, because people take jobs by getting the job you could've had, but then give jobs, create new jobs just by buying food and clothes and taking buses. and it doesnt matter if they're new or illegal.
ILLEGAL aliens push wages DOWN for especially people with low skills. Too, not all people are "college material" so why should they be cut out of their piece of the American Dream by a bunch of lawbreakers?

We NEED blue collar workers to keep things running like our cars, water pipes, roads and so on. We def DON'T need illegal aliens at all.
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Old 09-06-2014, 12:40 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felines are superior View Post
why do people blame unemployment on immgrants, legal or otherwise?
the immigrants, the legal as well as the illegals, have to eat, so you need more factories and supermarkets, for instance. they also wear clothes, which means more factories and stores.
in a big city, it's much easier to find a job than in a small town. and in a big city you have more people. the more people, the more jobs. just because they're new or even illegal doesnt mean they won't bring in jobs.
but in a big city you have more people who would take your job away, and still you have more jobs, because people take jobs by getting the job you could've had, but then give jobs, create new jobs just by buying food and clothes and taking buses. and it doesnt matter if they're new or illegal.
No one is blaming legal immigrants for high unemployment but it is just a fact that illegal aliens are taking blue-collared jobs at cut rate wages and it is diminishing the job opportunities for Americans.

They can eat in their own countries where they belong. No, more people doesn't mean more jobs it means less jobs. It's the law of supply and demand. Illegal aliens have no right to be here much less to be working here. You do know that, don't you? I can't even understand what you are trying to say in your last paragraph.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,152,740 times
Reputation: 26668
Brilliant article, and it articulates many of the points I've been making for many years.
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:53 PM
 
11,501 posts, read 5,511,317 times
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This is an excellent article. It's too bad that it will never appear in the lamestream media---where it belongs. However, we know that the lamestream media wants open borders, amnesty and millions more functionally illiterate people here.

The sad thing is that low information voters (on both sides of the aisle) think that if the lamestream media doesn't mention these things then it means that it isn't happening.
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Lewes, Delaware
3,464 posts, read 3,008,228 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Who's "we"? It isn't most regular Americans that hire them. If hired through an agency then it is the agencies responsibility to hire legal workers. Please stop lumping the majority of Americans in with those that hire them by using words like "us".

You're wrong that the majority of our youth and adults refuse to do blue-collared jobs for a fair wage and there is nothing laughable about this whole issue either.
You are so right about this and its not funny, I'm not joking either. I started plumbing at minimum wage back in '90s, went to school, passed all my tests and became journeyman.

I left the industry back in 2002 because of what you are talking about, went into pipe fitting at a refinery Sunoco, Marcus Hook, PA. The refinery closed in 2012 and since then I went back into plumbing and its worse than ever. There are roving crews of Latinos running around under other licensed plumbers doing all the plumbing in new construction homes.

They'll put 7-10 dudes in each house and get them done in one day.. Of course somebody has to lay the job out( show them where to drill the holes for toilets, pipe so on). Companies that haven't hired them, went out of business, since no one can compete with the wages they were for. I won't sit here and say that plumbing is some super skilled trade either, new work is really grunt work, the service industry side of the trade hasn't been touched yet because people still want plumbers who can speak english in their homes.

Here's the best part, builders are still charging top dollar for these homes so customers aren't seeing any type of savings either, the plumbing contractor barely makes any money on new work anyway, so hiring the Latinos was a last ditch effort to stay in business.

I quit my last job because I was carrying the license for the business and was told to lay out a home for these same guys and I refused to do it, especially under my plumbing license that I worked so hard to get. 12,000 hours of documented work plus, 4 years of schooling just to sit to take my test, not one of these crews has a master licensed plumber.

I went into business for myself and its been a struggle but I'd rather struggle than sell myself out.

It's not that kids won't do the work, they just know the wages aren't moving and haven't moved since the late '90s, why invest yourself in a trade that's going down, not up? This is one of the reasons the south is having so many problems with poverty and unemployment, this problem is moving north and will only get worse for other trades as well.

This isn't just plumbing either, drywall, framing, electrical, and finishing.
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 4,592,036 times
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Funny question on this....
Is the work done by the Latinos sub-standard? i.e. is the problem the level of work they do, or only the amount they are paid to do it?
Because if the problem is only the level of pay they will take, then maybe part of the issue here is that it is impossible to get a work visa to do trade work. If it were possible, these latino tradesmen would still be here, but here legally, working legally, and with the ability to join unions and leverage higher wages for them and ultimately all plumbers across the board.
(And, if there was such a thing as a tradesmen visa, I assume you would be willing to have them work under you.)
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:36 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
Funny question on this....
Is the work done by the Latinos sub-standard? i.e. is the problem the level of work they do, or only the amount they are paid to do it?
Because if the problem is only the level of pay they will take, then maybe part of the issue here is that it is impossible to get a work visa to do trade work. If it were possible, these latino tradesmen would still be here, but here legally, working legally, and with the ability to join unions and leverage higher wages for them and ultimately all plumbers across the board.
(And, if there was such a thing as a tradesmen visa, I assume you would be willing to have them work under you.)
I only have knowledge of Latinos here illegally that have done shabby work and of course employers hire them simply because they are cheap. I can't speak for those here legally or are citizens of this country. IMO, we don't need foreign tradesmen we have enough of our own that are unemployed. We should only be providing work visas to foreigners whose trades we need and right now I can't think of any trade that we don't have qualified Americans to do.
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Old 09-10-2014, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Lewes, Delaware
3,464 posts, read 3,008,228 times
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Their work is usually very good, again though new house plumbing isn't like building a rocket, service work can be though. Commercial and industrial new work can be difficult as well.

The electricians here maybe other states have basically gone the way of union rules. Any electrician pulling wire in a house, basically doing any kind of electrical work, has to be an apprentice in school, or a journeyman finished with school, they also must make a percentage of the highest paid journeyman that works for the company.
Just that rule has helped because most of the immigrants aren't in school and don't want to go to school. I'm hoping that plumbing, and HVAC also goes that route. Don't get me wrong, the owners of the shops, weren't thrilled with this , neither were the builders but having to conform to this new standard has made things better on the employee.

As for who can work under me and my license, I have adopted the the electrician standard. No matter how good their work is.
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Old 09-10-2014, 02:27 PM
 
31,500 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James420 View Post
Their work is usually very good, again though new house plumbing isn't like building a rocket, service work can be though. Commercial and industrial new work can be difficult as well.

The electricians here maybe other states have basically gone the way of union rules. Any electrician pulling wire in a house, basically doing any kind of electrical work, has to be an apprentice in school, or a journeyman finished with school, they also must make a percentage of the highest paid journeyman that works for the company.
Just that rule has helped because most of the immigrants aren't in school and don't want to go to school. I'm hoping that plumbing, and HVAC also goes that route. Don't get me wrong, the owners of the shops, weren't thrilled with this , neither were the builders but having to conform to this new standard has made things better on the employee.

As for who can work under me and my license, I have adopted the the electrician standard. No matter how good their work is.
By stating that their work is good are you referring to legal immigrants or illegal aliens? As I said in a prior post much of the work that illegal aliens do in construction is not good.
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Old 09-10-2014, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Lewes, Delaware
3,464 posts, read 3,008,228 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
By stating that their work is good are you referring to legal immigrants or illegal aliens? As I said in a prior post much of the work that illegal aliens do in construction is not good.
We don't have the numbers of illegals up here like they do in the south, but the legal ones so far have been good, work wise. Some of illegals work has been shoddy, and others decent. I know because of companies that were turned in for hiring illegals. Here's how it worked, the legal immigrant got a business license which is 75 bucks, then through a partner scored insurance for himself which was a million dollar policy, but the catch is he wasn't allowed to hire anyone because he didn't get workman's comp. So he hired 6 illegals to work with him and paid them basically nothing, or else. Or else means, see ya, back to Mexico. Its kind of a mixed bag when it comes to their work, some good, some not so good.

I know what a lot of people think, the legals can work for any amount they want to. So who cares if 15 guys with their families share a house, or only one of them has a car. Is that the kind of sacrifice that an American has been taught he or she has to make while working in a back breaking, knee busting, trade? Without decent healthcare, vacation or any kind of benefits? How many people would want to join the plumbing trade if that's your outlook? In a trade residential wise that the wages have been stagnant since the late 90s, the trades as it is have been losing benefits like vacation for years and its only getting worse. That goes for carpenters, sheet rockers, and roofers. Its one thing to have your job shipped overseas because thousands of workers will do that job for 1.00 an hour, its totally different when the job stays here in your face everyday and to compete, you have to keep lowering your standards.

There's gonna be a point where everybody's job is considered low skill, then what? Just wait till all those kids learning english in school graduate.
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