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Old 02-13-2015, 03:45 PM
 
31,543 posts, read 14,580,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
i am not in denial about anything. all illegal activities hurt society.
what i am saying is that american citizens involvement is far more than what you are asserting.
my background was only given to try to clarify why 2 law abiding citizens like us would have different opinions of american involvement in illegal alien hiring and the extent of illegal immigration into this country.

If you're going to make claims then please back them up. My experience has been with my neighbors, friends and acquaintences and businesses I deal with do not hire illegal aliens. I have no reason to believe that the "majority" of Americans hire illegal aliens....not even close.
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Old 02-13-2015, 05:25 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,427,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
If you're going to make claims then please back them up. My experience has been with my neighbors, friends and acquaintences and businesses I deal with do not hire illegal aliens. I have no reason to believe that the "majority" of Americans hire illegal aliens....not even close.
i can no more back up with hard facts on the hiring of illegals than you. can you can prove that most americans with rare exceptions dont hire the 20 million illegals here???
somebody is paying them that is for sure. you saying those that do hire them are rare exceptions- is not rational. how do they support themselves if that is true?
i can however go down to my local home depot any morning before 730 and see 30 men standing at the entrance waving people down. they all speak exclusive spanish and wear the clothes of working people in sinaloa.
am i confused and am really looking at a group of swedish tourists here studying spanish and who have gone on a garden supply trip to home depot together?
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Old 02-13-2015, 05:33 PM
 
31,543 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
i can no more back up with hard facts on the hiring of illegals than you. can you can prove that most americans with rare exceptions dont hire the 20 million illegals here???
somebody is paying them that is for sure. you saying those that do hire them are rare exceptions- is not rational. how do they support themselves if that is true?
i can however go down to my local home depot any morning before 730 and see 30 men standing at the entrance waving people down. they all speak exclusive spanish and 20 wear the clothes of working people in sinaloa.
am i confused and am really looking at a group of swedish tourists here studying spanish and who have gone on a garden supply trip to home depot together?
It's common sense. There are 320 million people in this country and most of them are Americans. Do you actually think that out of that high number that most of them hire illegal aliens? Where are you getting your 20 million figure? Aren't you the one who said there were 60 million before? I didn't say it was rare to hire them it is just that based on the above the majority don't.

I have seen these people out in front of Home Depot also but how does that constitute that the majority of Americans hire them?
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:31 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,137,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bpurrfect View Post
The USA has always had massively successful innovators. obviously you are unfamiliar with our history and the term, Yankee Ingenuity. We are a nation of inventors and innovators. Cheap immigrant labor on the other hand is what's in vogue at every level. Can we really say the recent foreign techie hires are even as good as what we already had? No, just cheaper. Or fun and exotic and trendy for a company (to be so "globalized" and International, oh how kewl).
Obviously you aren't familiar with economics. Our economy had grown significantly in the past half-century. While we've always had innovators, and we still have innovators, we don't have enough to sustain our economy. Are the "foreign techie hires" as good as what we already had? Many of them, yes. Are they better than what we had? Some of them, yes. Likewise, many of them are not as good as the talent we already contain within our borders.

The issue isn't that we don't have smart, competent people. We have plenty, and their all employed making well into six figure salaries. The problem is that we don't have enough to maintain the level of productivity needed to sustain our economy. Is the solution to keep importing labor? Probably not. We'd be better of producing smart, competent people within our own nation. But that's not something there's been a whole lot of focus on recently.
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:20 AM
 
5,179 posts, read 1,548,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Actually we have illegal immigration because employers want cheap labor and illegals will work under the table for less than employers would have to pay Americans. It's one way employers get around paying fair wages. If you stop illegal immigration, employers will be forced to hire legitimate workers for legitimate wages.
This is a myth. The illegals are working with fake IDs and using stolen identities (SSID)...so as far as employers are concerned, they ARE legal workers...and they are being paid legal wages.

Why does the Left block legislation requiring the use of E-Verify? That would prevent employers from being able to claim they didn't know that the documents they were presented with were actually fraudulent, because E-Verify would detect that.
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Old 03-18-2015, 02:25 PM
 
31,543 posts, read 14,580,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
This is a myth. The illegals are working with fake IDs and using stolen identities (SSID)...so as far as employers are concerned, they ARE legal workers...and they are being paid legal wages.

Why does the Left block legislation requiring the use of E-Verify? That would prevent employers from being able to claim they didn't know that the documents they were presented with were actually fraudulent, because E-Verify would detect that.
No not always, many times the employers know they are hiring illegal aliens so they can pay them less. E-verify was in the bi-partisan Senate bill that didn't pass the House. It wouldn't go into affect for 5 years and it also would not allow for employers to make current employees pass it. Talk about a loophole! I agree though, e-verify is about 96% effective in its present form and would weed out most illegal aliens applying for jobs.
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:59 PM
 
35 posts, read 34,836 times
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I don't want any more illegal immigration (or immigration period). I don't think I am alone with this feeling. I'm tried of the argument that "Legal/Illegal Immigration helps the economy", if that was the case, why do so many people with Masters and PhD's out of a job (or underemployed)? Or furthermore, the low skilled immigrants that are forced to go on Gov't assistance because they can't find a job. With less immigrants, the job market dries up, and employers are forced to hire and pay people for adequate wages.
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:01 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
12,921 posts, read 6,474,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximusa View Post
I don't want any more illegal immigration (or immigration period). I don't think I am alone with this feeling. I'm tried of the argument that "Legal/Illegal Immigration helps the economy", if that was the case, why do so many people with Masters and PhD's out of a job (or underemployed)? Or furthermore, the low skilled immigrants that are forced to go on Gov't assistance because they can't find a job. With less immigrants, the job market dries up, and employers are forced to hire and pay people for adequate wages.
You are not alone at all! I agree completely. I would stop immigration entirely, except for very limited numbers of people from Europe, Canada, Australia, South Africa & New Zealand.

This subject really makes me irate. I hate what's happening to this country.
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:06 PM
 
31,543 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximusa View Post
I don't want any more illegal immigration (or immigration period). I don't think I am alone with this feeling. I'm tried of the argument that "Legal/Illegal Immigration helps the economy", if that was the case, why do so many people with Masters and PhD's out of a job (or underemployed)? Or furthermore, the low skilled immigrants that are forced to go on Gov't assistance because they can't find a job. With less immigrants, the job market dries up, and employers are forced to hire and pay people for adequate wages.
It's the law of supply and demand. If the employers have access to cheaper, foreign labor whether they be here legally or illegally they aren't going to hire an Americans at a fair wage. That's the reason you see so much outsourcing of our jobs also. Illegal immigration impacts our poorer, less educated and blue-collared workforce. Our youth find entry level jobs disappearing also. How is it good for the economy to have Americans unemployed and on welfare instead?

The claim that "immigrants" keep our prices down is just plain bogus. Their social costs are enormous and they keep wages low.
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:17 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
You are not alone at all! I agree completely. I would stop immigration entirely, except for very limited numbers of people from Europe, Canada, Australia, South Africa & New Zealand.

This subject really makes me irate. I hate what's happening to this country.
To be fair: not all people from the rest of the world are bad news. Most legal aliens of ANY race are decent, at least here in the US.
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