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Old 12-28-2007, 11:07 PM
 
Location: escondido,ca
194 posts, read 400,477 times
Reputation: 121

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanman View Post
But you do admit that illegal immigration is a problem, right? Do you agree it is a problem for real Americans, rather than a problem for the hoards of unwashed peasants flowing across the border?

You talk about "undocumented workers". Are they not "illegal aliens", which is the way HS describes them officially? (The Green Card still uses the phrase "Legal Alien", so if you don't have a Green Card ...)

We can all have our opinions on what to do with these people, and my solution would be extreme to say the least, but as the man said, "We are entitled to our opinions, we are not entitled to our facts."

Please at least refer to illegal aliens as "illegal aliens" rather than the wet "undocumented worker" so that we do not compromise the English language any further and George Orwell can stop spinning in his grave.
Of course, it's a problem, hence the post. I also agree it's a problem for real Americans, in fact I lost a good paying job because my co workers from Honduras did the same work for half the pay, and I consider myself a REAL American. I have a family and it took a couple years plus to bounce back from that one. But there's a bigger problem that provokes these people to come here in the first place. I personally know quite a few non-citizen workers (compromise) and they work hard like I do, have families like I do, and in short have goals and dreams just like the rest of us. They made the illegal and dangerous decision to persue those dreams here because they could not be realized in their homeland. That's pretty much how my family ended up here as did the families of pretty much everyone else on here give or take a few details. I agree it's a problem, but I can't believe the hatred and lack of compassion so many Americans posses in dealing with it. I know amnesty isn't the most popular solution, but it's easier to execute than mass deportation. To get to the root of the problem, we need to fortify the borders (both). Shoot why don't we just invade Mexico and americanize em I heard they got a little bit of oil down there. Besides, the main reason Mexico's so screwed up is because of the drug cartels and who's their biggest consumer (not Canada).
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:45 AM
 
Location: On my way to FLA baby !!
1,999 posts, read 1,182,711 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Keyword ILLEGAL Entry. The courts have already ruled that being here illegally is not a crime. You might not like it but it's the law.


While unauthorized entry into the United States is illegal, being in the country after having entered illegally is not necessarily a crime, according to a new ruling by the Kansas Court of Appeals.
In a Barton County case, a three-judge panel issued an opinion Friday that a judge could not deny probation and order jail time for convicted drug dealer Nicholas L. Martinez based solely on the grounds that Martinez is an unauthorized immigrant.
"While Congress has criminalized the illegal entry into this country, it has not made the continued presence of an illegal alien in the United States a crime unless the illegal alien has previously been deported and has again entered this country illegally," Judge Patrick McAnany wrote for the court majority.
Barton County Attorney Douglas Matthews said courts in Oregon and Minnesota have issued similar rulings. But he said, "My research tells me this is the first time this has come up in this state."
http://www.latinalista.net/palabrafinal/2007/08/kansas_court_rules_being_in_the_country.html (broken link)

This is not federal law but juridictional law, therefore it is illegal to come to America to live or work here. There is a difference in the law for someone visiting or planning on living here.
These judges making these rulings have been overturned by federal law that prohibits any illegal from living or working here.
It is illegal to collect a paycheck, drive a car, use our services such as schools and hospitals, etc etc etc if you are NOT a legal citizen.

Just another way to get around the fact they are illegal and breaking the laws every day and it has to be stopped.
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:05 PM
 
67 posts, read 37,422 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
Of course, it's a problem, hence the post. I also agree it's a problem for real Americans, in fact I lost a good paying job because my co workers from Honduras did the same work for half the pay, and I consider myself a REAL American. I have a family and it took a couple years plus to bounce back from that one. But there's a bigger problem that provokes these people to come here in the first place. I personally know quite a few non-citizen workers (compromise) and they work hard like I do, have families like I do, and in short have goals and dreams just like the rest of us. They made the illegal and dangerous decision to persue those dreams here because they could not be realized in their homeland. That's pretty much how my family ended up here as did the families of pretty much everyone else on here give or take a few details. I agree it's a problem, but I can't believe the hatred and lack of compassion so many Americans posses in dealing with it. I know amnesty isn't the most popular solution, but it's easier to execute than mass deportation. To get to the root of the problem, we need to fortify the borders (both). Shoot why don't we just invade Mexico and americanize em I heard they got a little bit of oil down there. Besides, the main reason Mexico's so screwed up is because of the drug cartels and who's their biggest consumer (not Canada).
I strongly disagree that Americans are hateful or that they lack compassion. I am a Canadian citizen, a LEGAL ALIEN with a Green card, and having traveled through much of America I find Americans perhaps the most generous and compassionate people in the world!

The issue is that there is a limit to how much you can continue to do for people who continually spit in your eye ... you welcome them and they abuse you ... you help them and they want more ... you forgive them and they continue to break the law ...

Illegal Mexicans are a scourge on America, and have been for decades, destroying the culture, hospitals and in every way taking advantage of Americans' generousity, and Americans have finally had enough. THAT is why you are seeing so much pent-up frustration with these illegals.
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:32 PM
 
67 posts, read 37,422 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floridabound09 View Post
This is not federal law but juridictional law, therefore it is illegal to come to America to live or work here. There is a difference in the law for someone visiting or planning on living here.
These judges making these rulings have been overturned by federal law that prohibits any illegal from living or working here.
It is illegal to collect a paycheck, drive a car, use our services such as schools and hospitals, etc etc etc if you are NOT a legal citizen.

Just another way to get around the fact they are illegal and breaking the laws every day and it has to be stopped.

Also, while it is technically true that it is not a crime to simply be an illegal alien in America, as you point out as soon as that illegal alien actually does something that action is nearly always illegal. This is because the Supreme Court has found that there is "no continuance" regarding the initial "entry at a particular locality". Therefore, you break the law by entering the country but you do not continue to break the law by your presence. As soon as you do something you then break the law. Bizarre, but that's the way it works.

I believe this Supreme Court ruling also substantiates the legality of so-called "sanctuary cities", but I'm not sure about this.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark-Baby View Post
US Citizens must band together against the invasion of illegal aliens and make our voices heard! Tell your Friends, Neighbors, Relatives, BPOE, FOE, VFW (etc.), Fraternity, Sorority, City Council, Mayor, School Board, Fire Marshall, Code Enforcement Department, Police Chief, Sheriff, County Board of Supervisors, Governor, State Senators, Congressperson, Senators and President - No Amnesty! No Guest Worker Programs! No Path to Citizenship! No Green Card Increases! No Free Education! No Free Health Care! No Welfare! No Food Stamps! No Section 8 Housing! No Anchor Babies! Secure Our Borders Now! Enforce America's Laws! Amend the 14th Amendment! CALL, FAX, EMAIL, WRITE (post cards) and VISIT their offices! The toll free phone numbers to the US Capitol in Washington DC are: 800-417-7666, 877-762-8762 and 866-340-9281. Email congressional staffers:

http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/out...hstaffers.html

The tip line for ICE / Dept. of Homeland Security to report illegal aliens is 1-866-DHS-2ICE. Go to these web sites, join up and send as many faxes or emails as you can. Pass it along to everyone you know.
Don't wait, do it NOW!

http://www.numbersusa.com
http://www.capsweb.org
http://www.fairus.org
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com
http://anti-illegalimmigrationevents.com/
http://latinoamericans.org
http://www.dontspeakforme.org/ (broken link)
http://www.chooseblackamerica.com/
http://www.minutemanproject.com
http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/
http://www.americanpatrol.com
http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/
http://www.ccir.net
http://www.mothersagainstillegalaliens.org/
http://www.teamamericapac.org/
http://www.thewakeupamericafoundation.com/
http://www.wehategringos.com
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.wehirealiens.com/
http://www.reportillegals.com/
www.illegalemployers.org
http://www.Vdare.com
http://www.protectourborder.net
http://www.send-a-brick.com
http://www.betterimmigration.com/can...uredraces.html
http://www.noinvaders.org/home.shtml (broken link)
http://www.unitetofight.org
http://www.forthecause.us
http://www.illegalaliens.us
http://usaborderalert.com
http://firecoalition.com
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org...mevictims.html
http://www.illegalimmigrationjournal.com/index.cfm (broken link)
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/
http://www.alipac.us
http://www.unitedpatriotsofamerica.com
http://www.thedustininmansociety.org
http://www.unitedstates.fm
http://www.minuteman.tv
http://www.frostywooldridge.com/
http://www.englishfirst.org/
http://www.proenglish.org/
http://www.usenglish.org
www.oregonir.org
http://www.ifire.org
http://mfire.org
http://www.usaforamericans.com

Crime Victims of Illegal Aliens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpomTIkv0V8
See the latest numbers here: http://immigrationcounters.com/
Debunking immigration myths: http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/mexico.html
Email your Senator:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
and Congress: http://www.congress.org
and The White House: comments@whitehouse.gov
White House phone # 202-456-1111 Comments: 202-456-6213
FAX: 202-456-2461
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
BOYCOTT LA RAZA Corporate Sponsors:
http://www.theamericanresistance.com...tributors.html
There's one link on there that will help contact any Official in the country.
http://www.alipac.us

But don't ignore the rest.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanman View Post
Also, while it is technically true that
Quote:
it is not a crime to simply be an illegal alien in America
, as you point out as soon as that illegal alien actually does something that action is nearly always illegal. This is because the Supreme Court has found that there is "no continuance" regarding the initial "entry at a particular locality". Therefore, you break the law by entering the country but you do not continue to break the law by your presence. As soon as you do something you then break the law. Bizarre, but that's the way it works.

I believe this Supreme Court ruling also substantiates the legality of so-called "sanctuary cities", but I'm not sure about this.
It's Illegal, but it's not a crime to come into this country illegally, without legal documents and ignore the Laws??
You'd better read up on the laws and constitution.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:31 PM
 
902 posts, read 505,464 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
It's Illegal, but it's not a crime to come into this country illegally, without legal documents and ignore the Laws??
You'd better read up on the laws and constitution.
The pro-illegal is just stating what some liberal idiot judge said. Of course, he refuses to to post all of the judges that agree with AZ and their laws and also agree with OK and their laws.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:35 PM
 
1,267 posts, read 2,986,527 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark-Baby View Post
US Citizens must band together against the invasion of illegal aliens and make our voices heard! Tell your Friends, Neighbors, Relatives, BPOE, FOE, VFW (etc.), Fraternity, Sorority, City Council, Mayor, School Board, Fire Marshall, Code Enforcement Department, Police Chief, Sheriff, County Board of Supervisors, Governor, State Senators, Congressperson, Senators and President - No Amnesty! No Guest Worker Programs! No Path to Citizenship! No Green Card Increases! No Free Education! No Free Health Care! No Welfare! No Food Stamps! No Section 8 Housing! No Anchor Babies! Secure Our Borders Now! Enforce America's Laws! Amend the 14th Amendment! CALL, FAX, EMAIL, WRITE (post cards) and VISIT their offices! The toll free phone numbers to the US Capitol in Washington DC are: 800-417-7666, 877-762-8762 and 866-340-9281. Email congressional staffers:

http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/out...hstaffers.html

The tip line for ICE / Dept. of Homeland Security to report illegal aliens is 1-866-DHS-2ICE. Go to these web sites, join up and send as many faxes or emails as you can. Pass it along to everyone you know.
Don't wait, do it NOW!

http://www.numbersusa.com
http://www.capsweb.org
http://www.fairus.org
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com
http://anti-illegalimmigrationevents.com/
http://latinoamericans.org
http://www.dontspeakforme.org/ (broken link)
http://www.chooseblackamerica.com/
http://www.minutemanproject.com
http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/
http://www.americanpatrol.com
http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/
http://www.ccir.net
http://www.mothersagainstillegalaliens.org/
http://www.teamamericapac.org/
http://www.thewakeupamericafoundation.com/
http://www.wehategringos.com
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.wehirealiens.com/
http://www.reportillegals.com/
www.illegalemployers.org
http://www.Vdare.com
http://www.protectourborder.net
http://www.send-a-brick.com
http://www.betterimmigration.com/can...uredraces.html
http://www.noinvaders.org/home.shtml (broken link)
http://www.unitetofight.org
http://www.forthecause.us
http://www.illegalaliens.us
http://usaborderalert.com
http://firecoalition.com
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org...mevictims.html
http://www.illegalimmigrationjournal.com/index.cfm (broken link)
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/
http://www.alipac.us
http://www.unitedpatriotsofamerica.com
http://www.thedustininmansociety.org
http://www.unitedstates.fm
http://www.minuteman.tv
http://www.frostywooldridge.com/
http://www.englishfirst.org/
http://www.proenglish.org/
http://www.usenglish.org
www.oregonir.org
http://www.ifire.org
http://mfire.org
http://www.usaforamericans.com

Crime Victims of Illegal Aliens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpomTIkv0V8
See the latest numbers here: http://immigrationcounters.com/
Debunking immigration myths: http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/mexico.html
Email your Senator:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
and Congress: http://www.congress.org
and The White House: comments@whitehouse.gov
White House phone # 202-456-1111 Comments: 202-456-6213
FAX: 202-456-2461
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
BOYCOTT LA RAZA Corporate Sponsors:
http://www.theamericanresistance.com...tributors.html
just out of curiosity, i wonder if native americans and mexicans said the same things when "illegal aliens" "invaded"...

no more green cards or other paths to citizenship? we could kiss our entire system goodbye if that were the case, couldn't we? that could be a TON of brain power (and some pretty interesting culture) that puts things on YOUR plate, so to speak, that might then be gone, right?
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello-world View Post
just out of curiosity, i wonder if native americans and mexicans said the same things when "illegal aliens" "invaded"...
And your point being?

All races/ethnicities have been conquered by (or did the conquering of) other cultures------of either the same or other races/cultures.

Besides; what did the Aztecs think when Cortez came in and subjugated them?
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,159 posts, read 10,893,123 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
Does it really **** you off that much that a new wave of immigrants is finding their way across America?? Do you really think that these people, who try to stay under the radar collect more welfare and section 8 than our own citizens in all these housing projects and trailer parks do??
You seem to be missing the point entirely. Ozark never said, and I don't know very many people who think, that immigration is a bad thing, or that immigrants are bad people. But people who cross the border illegally, circumventing the legal process, ignoring the laws of this great nation, making those who have opted to follow the rules have to wait longer, are not immigrants. They are criminals. That's the objection. They are welcome to come here, so long as they follow the rules laid out for all those who want to. I don't get why people have such objection to this simple concept. We have laws in place. We expect that they will be obeyed, and if they are not, there will be penalties. And when someone breaks those laws to come here, how can we as Americans have any confidence in the fact that this person will not break the next law that strikes them as incinvenient to their goals? For that reason, I too say get them out. No amnesty, no free education, no fast track to legal status, no nothing except a bus back to the border. They want to come back? Great. There's the line, get on it. Here are the forms, fill them out. Here are the rules, prepare to be bound by them. Hope to see you soon.

Last edited by Bill Keegan; 12-29-2007 at 04:03 PM.. Reason: typo
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