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Old 12-28-2007, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,156 times
Reputation: 780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Any of you having a glass of wine or a beer this fine evening? Thank an illegal agricultural worker.
So illegals are the ONLY ONES responsible for hravesting grapes and hops for beer and wine? Without illegals we wouldn't have these things? I'm sure there are PLENTY of people enjoying these things from the labor of an AMERICAN, and even if there were no illegals, people would still be enjoying these things. That's like saying " Without illegals, you would no longer be able to enjoy fuits and vegetables". What a crock.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:21 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,706,920 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
So illegals are the ONLY ONES responsible for hravesting grapes and hops for beer and wine? Without illegals we wouldn't have these things? I'm sure there are PLENTY of people enjoying these things from the labor of an AMERICAN, and even if there were no illegals, people would still be enjoying these things. That's like saying " Without illegals, you would no longer be able to enjoy fuits and vegetables". What a crock.
Perhaps if you read all my posts you would understand the problem with out the emotional outburst. Of course, not all ag workers are illegal, probably no more than 50 percent are.

And no this is a fallacious statement;
Quote:
That's like saying " Without illegals, you would no longer be able to enjoy fuits and vegetables". What a crock.
Of course you would enjoy these things, the point which you seem to have missed, is the glass of wine, or the beer you are having tonight, came to you at least partially due to the labor of an illegal.

I think that a calm response to data would be better than sounding a bit like my 15 year old when she runs out of mascara.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:26 PM
 
38 posts, read 53,485 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
I find Americans working "illegally" all over the resort areas of Mexico and Europe, darned criminals. I think 100% of the illegals got here by illegal means.
Look, you haters, can hate, it is a free country (actually the 17th freeist country in the world but, hey) each day you benefit from the labor of these people. Statistics of arrest and imprisonment show that about 2.8% of illegals commit crimes.
That means 97.8 % don't, aside from the heinous criminal act of entering this country without bothering the bureaucrats.

Any of you having a glass of wine or a beer this fine evening? Thank an illegal agricultural worker.

And, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Ozark I am still waiting for my little problem with your recollection (or is it mine? only Ozark knows, and she ain't talking).
Haters? Are you calling us Haters? What do you mean by "Haters"?

Are you saying that we are "Haters" of the illegal invasion of our nation? That much is true. I hate the fact that our nation is being invaded by illegals. Does that clear things up for you?
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,156 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Perhaps if you read all my posts you would understand the problem with out the emotional outburst. Of course, not all ag workers are illegal, probably no more than 50 percent are.

And no this is a fallacious statement;

Of course you would enjoy these things, the point which you seem to have missed, is the glass of wine, or the beer you are having tonight, came to you at least partially due to the labor of an illegal.

I think that a calm response to data would be better than sounding a bit like my 15 year old when she runs out of mascara.
If you took my response as emotional, that's your own problem, because that's not how I wrote it. Try to condescend me and talk down to me all you want, you're no better than anyone here. You remark that anyone enjoying a glass of wine or beer should thank an illegal is ridiculous, and I just thought I'd point that out to you.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:31 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Any of you having a glass of wine or a beer this fine evening? Thank an illegal agricultural worker.
Any of you catch hepatitis from eating at a salad bar? Thank an illegal agricultural worker.

Last edited by andreabeth; 12-28-2007 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:34 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,706,920 times
Reputation: 350
Yes, I think, carefully rationalized, but nevertheless, haters.

I reflect upon Apartheid in South Africa. The separation of whites and blacks, the removal of blacks and the placing of them into Bantustans was never because they were black, it was because of differing aspirations with the white minority. The crime they caused, the prolific breeding etc, so at odds with the white minority. The word hate was never used.

Yet, the conviction that the Black African was a lessor species dictated all the Apartheid actions. As I heard a white South African once say, "The blacks are no more than monkeys".

Much of the anti illegal language is not new, it is quite similar to the language used against the black Africans. It is nearly identical with the language used against Japanese and Chinese in America in the early part of this century.

I suppose one way to check this idea I have that hate of Mexicans, that the sense that they are inferior to whites would be your reaction to the news that your teenage daughter was dating a Mexican. If you can relax and contemplate your daughter driving off into the night with Hector Gonzales and Pedro Lopez and Maria Rangel on a double date with a calm attitude, you might not be a hater. Only you will know how you will feel about that?

AndreaBeth brought this up;
Quote:
Any of you catch hepatitis from eating at a salad? Thank an illegal agricultural worker.
The only major health problem so far with produce in the past few years was caused by cattle, citizen owned cattle. Our fields are constantly tested for health problems. Independent labs are brought in at our expense to test the produce on a continuing basis. Porta potties are provide with hand washing stations within convenient distance to the workers.

Some on this board have suggested our ag fields be replaced with housing and produce brought in from other countries, like Mexico.... Good luck.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:41 PM
 
38 posts, read 53,485 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Yes, I think, carefully rationalized, but nevertheless, haters.

I reflect upon Apartheid in South Africa. The separation of whites and blacks, the removal of blacks and the placing of them into Bantustans was never because they were black, it was because of differing aspirations with the white minority. The crime they caused, the prolific breeding etc, so at odds with the white minority. The word hate was never used.

Yet, the conviction that the Black African was a lessor species dictated all the Apartheid actions. As I heard a white South African once say, "The blacks are no more than monkeys".

Much of the anti illegal language is not new, it is quite similar to the language used against the black Africans. It is nearly identical with the language used against Japanese and Chinese in America in the early part of this century.

I suppose one way to check this idea I have that hate of Mexicans, that the sense that they are inferior to whites would be your reaction to the news that your teenage daughter was dating a Mexican. If you can relax and contemplate your daughter driving off into the night with Hector Gonzales and Pedro Lopez and Maria Rangel on a double date with a calm attitude, you might not be a hater. Only you will know how you will feel about that?

AndreaBeth brought this up;

The only major health problem so far with produce in the past few years was caused by cattle, citizen owned cattle. Our fields are constantly tested for health problems. Independent labs are brought in at our expense to test the produce on a continuing basis. Porta potties are provide with hand washing stations within convenient distance to the workers.

Some on this board have suggested our ag fields be replaced with housing and produce brought in from other countries, like Mexico.... Good luck.
Unbelievable.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Yes, I think, carefully rationalized, but nevertheless, haters.

I reflect upon Apartheid in South Africa. The separation of whites and blacks, the removal of blacks and the placing of them into Bantustans was never because they were black, it was because of differing aspirations with the white minority. The crime they caused, the prolific breeding etc, so at odds with the white minority. The word hate was never used.

Yet, the conviction that the Black African was a lessor species dictated all the Apartheid actions. As I heard a white South African once say, "The blacks are no more than monkeys".

Much of the anti illegal language is not new, it is quite similar to the language used against the black Africans. It is nearly identical with the language used against Japanese and Chinese in America in the early part of this century.

I suppose one way to check this idea I have that hate of Mexicans, that the sense that they are inferior to whites would be your reaction to the news that your teenage daughter was dating a Mexican. If you can relax and contemplate your daughter driving off into the night with Hector Gonzales and Pedro Lopez and Maria Rangel on a double date with a calm attitude, you might not be a hater. Only you will know how you will feel about that?
Guess what:

If a bunch of Hungarians came here illegally and copped their chauvinistic attitude: this ol' redneck here would be furious-------never mind that I am of 1/2 Hungarian heritage. And I would be making an honest effort to have 'em deported post haste.

Besides: there is no such thing as a Hispanic race-------show me the 'Latino' gene in any Spaniard/Latin American.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:47 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post


I suppose one way to check this idea I have that hate of Mexicans, that the sense that they are inferior to whites would be your reaction to the news that your teenage daughter was dating a Mexican. If you can relax and contemplate your daughter driving off into the night with Hector Gonzales and Pedro Lopez and Maria Rangel on a double date with a calm attitude, you might not be a hater. Only you will know how you will feel about that?
.... .
Of course, the "haters" are watching this issue--and don't hesitate to speak up.
But, as for your hypothetical "dating" scenario, I can't comment, being in a pretty "mixed" situation myself. I can only point out that the scene you allude to presupposes that people would ONLY object to their teenage daughter dating someone for reasons of race. I don't know haw many daughters you have, but believe me, there are a LOT of people you wouldn't want them dating! 'Race' isn't the 'half of it'....!
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
I'm so sick of hearing people bash illegals for being here, then turn around and say that they are against amnesty. What's YOUR solution? waisting taxpayers money to find and deport these people just to have half of them return through our leaky borders? Is that your final answer??? C'mon people you're kidding yourselves if you think the solution is that simple. Not to mention, I whole heartedly suspect that most of you are racist, wether you want to admit it or not. If our country was being flooded by illegal Canadians, I doubt we'd see a fraction of the backlash that we do now!! (granted they were white) The sad thing is most of these people come here to work and escape their country's corrupt governments, call me crazy, but wasn't that why our country was founded in the first place?? Give them amnesty so they can pay into the system like the rest of us. Nearly all these people are here to work just like us!! People like to associate illegals with gangs and crime, when the truth is that's a homegrown problem that started way before now (ever heard of the mafia or see "West Side Story"). Maybe if we treated our neighbors with a little more hospitality, they would work harder to learn the language and assimilate, but who wants to be a team player on a team that treats you like the competition. Sorry, but amnesty is the only REAL solution.Waisting my tax money to deport all these hard working people is ridiculous. We could use that money to better secure our borders and stop the contraband thats been coming through for years. Wake up America, we have a lot worse things to worry about than people coming here to support their families. With half the world wanting to blow us off the map, turning our backs on our nieghbors in need is the most un-American thing we can do. I say make em citizens and keep the American dream alive!!
All I can say about "1 sided " stories like yours is,
Get educated on what on the issue before you write about it.

What I can say is: The issue is "ILLEGAL" and it goes for anyone and everyone who came to this country "ILLEGALLY"
Not just you and your Chicano's.
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