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Old 12-31-2007, 08:32 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,733,680 times
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So, based on the above, neither of you know what the opening scenario of the Mexican revolt against Spain was. A cursory reading of Mexican History would explain to you why the migration to the US.
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
TriMT7 has what seems a logical reason, although not accurate. The Virginia colonies were all male and began the trend of killing the locals (Pocahontas was and exception and is famous for being an exception)
The Spanish in South America freely married indian women, although there were plenty of Spanish women. They did not carry the essentially racist ideas of the English.

So why were the English so different? Even the French commonly took native wives, but the English did not. First thing to understand was the religious ideals of the English, potent puritans. The second was the long history of the English in Ireland. The English transfered their feelings about the Irish to the Native Americans, summed up easiest as, the Irish being inferior beings.

If you study British Imperial History you will find that British held aloof from the natives they ruled, the classic examples are found in India, where "going native" resulted in social disgrace.

To call me prejudiced for point out history is just to show how little history some people know.
So raping the natives is the preferred method of rule?
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:41 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
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AndreaBeth, quite often you make posts that do not reflect well on your knowledge of a subject. That was about as kind as I could make it.

Here is your homework assignment; who did Hernan Cortez marry and was it rape?
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,815,247 times
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A quote from my Mexican friend here:

Quote:
There is an inferiority complex dating back to the days of the conquest and subsequen Spanish colonization. The Spaniards themselves refered to the Arabs as Moors, "Moros" in Spanish which means "dark-skinned". A black eye in one's face in Spanish Spanish is "ojo moro", in Mexican Spanish is "ojo morado" or "violet eye".

The Spanish conquest in Mexico was successfull on three counts: first, the locals had never seen horses before and thought that horse and rider were one being, and the second, the Aztecs managed to be hated by everyone else, as they subjugated a number of other nations under them to build their empire. These nations allied with the Spaniards to topple the Aztecs, but alas, the Spaniards' plans were different. Third, the Spaniards brought with them smallpox, which decimated the local population during an epidemic that was second to none in Europe; millions perished.

The first "mestizos" were born when Hernán Cortés himself had a child with Malintzin or "La Malinche", his interpreter. A couple of Spanish sailors that came with Columbus were stranded in the Yucatán peninsula when Cortés came to Mexico, and they had already had children with Mayan women. Cortés' child was the first kid from a European father and an Aztec mother. Soon a number of "mestizo" kids were born and thus the Mexican nation was born with them. The Spaniards treated them badly, as "hijos de la chingada" which is the worst offense you can make to a Mexican, because "la chingada" means "the raped woman", which indeed was the destiny of many Native Mexican women during the three centuries that the Spanish colonial period lasted.

Mexican society was divided in castes which determined the socio-political and economic level of the people: first, there were the Europeans, mostly Spaniards, who had all the wealth, government positions (conveniently far from Spain, they could loot the country at will) and were the entrepreneurs and landowners. Some among them were nobles too and were styled counts or dukes or barons. Then came the "criollos" or creoles, the children of European fathers and mothers born in Mexico. Then came the "mestizos", as explained above, and a host of others like the "mulatos", children of a white father and a black mother, as we did have slaves from Africa too, but not to the extent of the USA.

The "mestizos" were way below in the food chain, most were children of single mothers and were not recognized by their fathers. Last names or family names had to be given when the kids were baptized, and since the mothers didn't know the last name of the fathers of their children, they used his first name as the kids' last name. The "mestizos" were the children of the powerful, exploiting European father and the subjugated, powerless, raped Mexican mother.

This is how the Mexican inferiority complex was born, and this is why the country is white supremacist, as another poster has adequately described it.

For some reason, it looks like the dark skin color of the Native Mexicans tends to prevail for generations, and along with it, the inferiority complex of people here.

Swept aside from mainstream Mexico since the 1500s, rural communities in the country still count among their population a vast majority of Native Mexicans and "mestizos". On top of Spanish, 57 local languages are spoken in the country. In this day and age some people still don't speak Spanish. As a country we have failed to incorporate them into our civilization (for good or bad) and they are the ones that emigrate in search of better opportunities. Commiting a crime is the last thing they intend to do, so while in your legal system they are criminals, some won't understand that. In some parts of the country, Mexico has had to make exceptions because rule of law won't apply there, instead, it's "uses and customs" and our government must abide or else. Such is the case of Chiapas.

I hope I have explained the roots of the problem that your country and mine are facing.
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
A quote from my Mexican friend here:
"Chingada" can also describe what happens when you skin your knuckles--or burn your hand---or can't get a motor to start...
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:55 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,739,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
AndreaBeth, quite often you make posts that do not reflect well on your knowledge of a subject. That was about as kind as I could make it.

Here is your homework assignment; who did Hernan Cortez marry and was it rape?
The history of Mexico is just not real high on my priorities list. I can't say I know much about his wives.......but it looks like he was accused of murdering the first one. Not a quality I would seek in a husband.
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:00 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,733,680 times
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He has a rather bitter take on it, his points are largely accurate, however, one does not account for millions of Mestizos by rape. Within the Peninsulares themselves there was a caste system reflecting the caste system in Spain at the time. The common soldier/tradesman took a wife, that was common, the relationship between man and woman shared the traits of the time, that is, the man was king, but, to imply that Mexico today is the product of mass rape is erroneous.

As a criollo woman I spent time with down there somewhere, told me, the Mexicans you get are the ones who cannot make it Mexico, you should pity them, not punish them.

Which brings up another part of history. Most all cultures are built on a base of "slave" labor, or serf labor, an underclass of workers who provide the basis for the upper class standard of living. Rome, perhaps 80% of the inhabitants were slaves. The Mexican laborer occupies the same position today.
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:05 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,739,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
He has a rather bitter take on it, his points are largely accurate, however, one does not account for millions of Mestizos by rape. Within the Peninsulares themselves there was a caste system reflecting the caste system in Spain at the time. The common soldier/tradesman took a wife, that was common, the relationship between man and woman shared the traits of the time, that is, the man was king, but, to imply that Mexico today is the product of mass rape is erroneous.

As a criollo woman I spent time with down there somewhere, told me, the Mexicans you get are the ones who cannot make it Mexico, you should pity them, not punish them.
This is Mexico's problem. It needs to be addressed by Mexico, not exported to the US.

Quote:
Which brings up another part of history. Most all cultures are built on a base of "slave" labor, or serf labor, an underclass of workers who provide the basis for the upper class standard of living. Rome, perhaps 80% of the inhabitants were slaves. The Mexican laborer occupies the same position today.
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:15 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,733,680 times
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I disagree AndreaBeth based on this poem, you will notice it doesn't say, "only those who conform to arbitrary bureaucratic rules, of course it is probably a communist poem:
Quote:
“The New Colossus” by Emma Lazarus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles.
From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!"” cries she
With silent lips. “
Quote:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:29 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,739,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
I disagree AndreaBeth based on this poem, you will notice it doesn't say, "only those who conform to arbitrary bureaucratic rules, of course it is probably a communist poem:
Mexico needs to take responsibility for it's citizens. When the US is forced to serve as a pressure relief valve this does nothing more than allow the corrupt status quo to continue.
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