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Old 12-30-2007, 02:57 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,211,944 times
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The United States is a sovereign nation. As a sovereign nation, we have a right to regulate the flow of people across our borders, as would France or Bangladesh, or any other country on the planet. Further, we have a sovereign right to enforce our own laws. Finally, if I snuck into Canada or Germany or New Zealand, I almost certainly wouldn't be able to get away with receiving government benefits, and nobody would criticize those governments for denying them to me.

With this in mind, why are so many people piling onto the United States for wanting to maintain its own sovereignty? I recognize that, as a country of immigrants, we should welcome continued, well-regulated influx of people into this country. I also recognize that our economy is so strong, that we need outside workers to simply fill all the jobs, which means a Guest Worker program would be a good idea. At the same time, I object strongly to some people's position that as long as you can make it over the Rio Grande, you have an inalienable right to be here.

In response to this, I would like to read well-reasoned, unemotional responses to this question.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:13 PM
 
14,206 posts, read 7,406,947 times
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King of the mountain.The United States cant do anything without being chastised.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:15 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,211,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
King of the mountain.The United States cant do anything without being chastised.
That's nice. But I really want to hear a coherent argument. For example, if I snuck my family into Spain, and was deported by the authorities, no rational person would offer up a whimper of protest on my behalf. So why do Central Americans get a free pass on this subject?
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:19 PM
 
14,206 posts, read 7,406,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
That's nice. But I really want to hear a coherent argument. For example, if I snuck my family into Spain, and was deported by the authorities, no rational person would offer up a whimper of protest on my behalf. So why do Central Americans get a free pass on this subject?
Good luck, I have no rational argument there.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:19 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 706,092 times
Reputation: 104
well reasoned thread...i agree that we are a sovereign nation. we should be able to maintain and enforce our laws. whether the laws are about dwi or domestic abuse...or illegal immigration.
the epople in favor of illegal immigration would have you believe that if we enforce the immigration law then we are a nation without a heart.
i know what illegal immigration can cost americans, because it has happened to us.
now when you say unemotional responses are welcome, i am sorry but the issue is emotional for me.
my husband was severly injured in 1996 by an illegal drunk driver from mexico, who after being released due to his guilty plea even though his identity was never established beforehand, nm 961553 , he was found after his release ,to have had a warrrant in california for brandishing a loaded firearm in a barfight before he'd injured my husband , then he went on the run from justice for nine years, leaving us to pick up the pieces.
we suffered with my husbands severe injuries, ended up with over a hundred thousand dollars in medical bills and lost wages, ended up filing bankruptcy and lost our home to a foreclosure, then once the illegal was finally captured for the crime against my husband he essentially received a slap on the wrist , after serving his measly two year probation, he was arrested again for another crime....arrested three times while being in america illegally, never deported once.........
so i apologize if i am emotional...i am angry to say the least...anyone who says that illegal immigration is not a threat to this nation in my opinion does not hold loyalty to america or it's citizens.
i worry for other americans, and have heard worse horror stories about the effects of illegal immigrants and the crimes they commit while being in our country illegally, my suggestion to you is to go online, google deputy david marsh and read his story...this may anger you, but he and my husband are only two in a long list of victims of the illegal immigration issue.
if you are as angry as we are, please write call and email your elected officials and remind them who pays their wages...and tell them what you'd like them to do to solve this problem....
thanks for the thread.havent been on for a while, but like what you are saying.
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:51 PM
 
902 posts, read 505,812 times
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Strictly because the country has gone PC mad and refuse to admit that the illegals are BAD for us and the country as a whole and they are scared of being called racist or bigot. Most of us have gotten so used to being called those names that it is badge of honor these days because it means that we are winning.
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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Originally Posted by Ozark-Baby View Post
Strictly because the country has gone PC mad and refuse to admit that the illegals are BAD for us and the country as a whole and they are scared of being called racist or bigot. Most of us have gotten so used to being called those names that it is badge of honor these days because it means that we are winning.
God Gawd woman: you hit the nail on the head right there with your BMFH!
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:56 PM
 
902 posts, read 505,812 times
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
God Gawd woman: you hit the nail on the head right there with your BMFH!
TY.... Just saying it like it is!!!
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:01 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
The United States is a sovereign nation. As a sovereign nation, we have a right to regulate the flow of people across our borders, as would France or Bangladesh, or any other country on the planet. Further, we have a sovereign right to enforce our own laws. Finally, if I snuck into Canada or Germany or New Zealand, I almost certainly wouldn't be able to get away with receiving government benefits, and nobody would criticize those governments for denying them to me.

With this in mind, why are so many people piling onto the United States for wanting to maintain its own sovereignty? I recognize that, as a country of immigrants, we should welcome continued, well-regulated influx of people into this country. I also recognize that our economy is so strong, that we need outside workers to simply fill all the jobs, which means a Guest Worker program would be a good idea. At the same time, I object strongly to some people's position that as long as you can make it over the Rio Grande, you have an inalienable right to be here.

In response to this, I would like to read well-reasoned, unemotional responses to this question.
Is this a "trick question"?.....you won't get a "rational" answer, because there IS none. You will get lots of IRRATIONAL answers, if that is any consolation...among them are:

(1) The US is a "western" liberal, democratic, open society. We should take care of others because we CAN. If we don't, we're BAD. We're not allowed to compare ourselves with other countries--no matter what THEY do, we're still selfish, and we should feel guilty....

(2) Other countries DON'T take in large numbers of illegals, because their cultures won't tolerate outsiders. These are PROUD cultures, and want to maintain themselves. We really don't have a culture at all, so it doesn't matter who comes here...

(3) We have no right to keep OTHERS out, since we are ALL immigrants, anyway. Even if we were born here, and even if we're Native Americans. WE're still really "immigrants".

(4) We have no right to object to others coming here, with permission or without, as the US is really "stolen" land. In fact, Mexicans really own a large part of the US anyway, so they can hardly be expected to "ask permission"...

(5) Modern-day America was started by white people, who have stolen just about all their technology, land, and riches from various groups of non-whites; therefore, whites have no moral right to anything. Whites would not be where they are today unless they did something crooked and "underhanded"...Education and hard work never worked in building America--it was pretty much just stolen from others.

(6) Illegal immigrants come from wonderful places where they're valued and have plenty of opportunity, to the US, where they're mistreated and abused. This "proves" that they are lured here against their will, under false pretenses. Most would love to go home, if we'd only let them.

(7) Everyone has a right to work and make a living, but this rule is true ONLY in the United States...therefore, it's an incomplete statement. The entire statement would be "Everyone in the world, regardless of circumstances, has a right to make a living and find housing IN THE U.S.".....Other nations are exempt from this rule.

(8) America has ALWAYS welcomed immigrants. Therefore, it has become understood that this is America's responsibility, now and for all time. Other nations do NOT welcome immigrants, so they aren't EXPECTED to; and because they don't tolerate immigrants, they can't mistreat them. Only America mistreats its immigrants. And it's not important that immigrants be legal, either. As long as they are "nice", and want to work, we need to accomodate them....Remember, "There are no illegal human beings".

(9) The fact that a FEW illegal immigrants commit violent crime and welfare fraud shouldn't concern us. Our OWN citizens commit crimes, too, so we're really USED to it...A little more crime can't possibly be that important.

Sorry that I can't offer you a well-reasoned answer as to why America doesn't have the rights to its borders that other nations have....but I hope the above IRRATIONAL reasons will give you something to think about. Hopefully some other reader can come up with the "reasonable" answer. I just can't think of any...
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:02 PM
 
902 posts, read 505,812 times
Reputation: 184
Sorry Mac, but we do have a culture!!!!
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