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Old 12-30-2007, 09:01 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,790,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
Several comments on your essay:

First of all illegal aliens are not immigrants, they're criminals. Immigrants come to America legally, are law abiding, and they want to become part of the fabric of America. Illegal aliens come here and literally pick and choose which laws they obey. There's a big difference between an immigrant and an illegal alien. A big difference.

The border fence works. Everywhere it's been put up it's worked. But keep in mind, the border patrol itself states the fence is not a cure all for border security. It's not designed to stop all illegals, it's designed to slow them down long enough for ICE to nab them.

As far as your 12 million illegals can't be deported. Well, they don't need to be. All that's needed is contact deportation, asset seizures, and time in a tent city jail. Process about a hundred thousand and you would be surprised at the numbers that would run for the border.

Finally we are not a nation of immigrants. Most citizens in America were born here, as were our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Which means most Americans are native to this country. Stating we are a nation of immigrants is like saying the indian nations are nations of immigrants because they immigrated from asia. It's simply intellectually disingenuous.
What dictionary did you find your definition of immigrant from??

im·mi·grant

NOUN
  1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another
one that immigrates: as a: a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:18 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,003,968 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
What dictionary did you find your definition of immigrant from??

im·mi·grant

NOUN
  1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another
one that immigrates: as a: a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence
Perhaps a better definition of an illegal alien would be an economic terrorist.
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:20 PM
 
Location: outer boroughs, NYC
905 posts, read 2,519,963 times
Reputation: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
Several comments on your essay:

First of all illegal aliens are not immigrants, they're criminals. Immigrants come to America legally, they are law abiding, and they want to become part of the fabric of American life. Illegal aliens come here and literally pick and choose which laws they obey. There's a big difference between an immigrant and an illegal alien. A big difference.

The border fence works. Everywhere it's been put up it's worked. But keep in mind, the border patrol itself states the fence is not a cure all for border security. It's not designed to stop all illegals, it's designed to slow them down long enough for ICE to nab them.

As far as your 12 million illegals can't be deported. Well, they don't need to be. All that's needed is contact deportation, asset seizures, and time in a tent city jail. Process about a hundred thousand and you would be surprised at the numbers that would run for the border.

Finally we are not a nation of immigrants. Most citizens in America were born here, as were our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Which means most Americans are native to this country. Stating we are a nation of immigrants is like saying the indian nations are nations of immigrants because they immigrated from asia. It's simply intellectually disingenuous.
I don't deny that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration. We need a comprehensive overhaul of all facets of immigration policy, which hopefully would deal with the problem. Like I said, easier to get here legally, harder to get here illegally. Maybe a fence could be a part of that in the future.

But, for the ones that are here already, I say there are degrees of criminality and if they have done everything legally except the actual act of coming here, well, they're basically equivalent to small-time criminals. Fine them and/or exact some other form of punishment, and let them stay.

I just wanted to clarify that.

As for your comment about American not being a nation of immigrants, well, I don't think you can compare three centuries of recent history with a migration that occurred over the course of thousands of years and before the advent of modern culture. Those two events are just not comparable. And, for the record, nearly everybody I know has at least one great-grandparent that was born outside this country, and usually more than that. In many cases, it is grandparents, or parents, or they are immigrants themselves (legal, of course). There's probably some statistics on this, but I'm not about to go find them right now.
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:26 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,003,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonwattagelimit View Post
I don't deny that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration. We need a comprehensive overhaul of all facets of immigration policy, which hopefully would deal with the problem. Like I said, easier to get here legally, harder to get here illegally. Maybe a fence could be a part of that in the future.

But, for the ones that are here already, I say there are degrees of criminality and if they have done everything legally except the actual act of coming here, well, they're basically equivalent to small-time criminals. Fine them and/or exact some other form of punishment, and let them stay.

I just wanted to clarify that.

As for your comment about American not being a nation of immigrants, well, I don't think you can compare three centuries of recent history with a migration that occurred over the course of thousands of years and before the advent of modern culture. Those two events are just not comparable. And, for the record, nearly everybody I know has at least one great-grandparent that was born outside this country, and usually more than that. In many cases, it is grandparents, or parents, or they are immigrants themselves (legal, of course). There's probably some statistics on this, but I'm not about to go find them right now.


We don't need comprehensive immigration policy reform. We need comprehensive immigration enforcement. This would include a 2000 mile fence, the military on the border, and seizing of assets.

As far as your other nation of immigrants comments go. Most Americans are US citizens that were born here. We are not a nation of immigrants.
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:39 PM
 
Location: outer boroughs, NYC
905 posts, read 2,519,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
This is funny. These poor sweaty guys who mow lawns for three dollars an hour have the big guns behind them, don't kid yourself. LaRaza, MALDEF, the ACLU, the SPLC, the Catholic church, various business groups; they have millions to work with. When we fought to stop the Amnesty scam in June, I doubt the group I was with had a budget in excess of $20,000. All the anti-illegal groups are shoestring operations. We have no corporate sponsors. The feds certainly aren't going to give us money although they give millions to LaRaza each year. It is all private donations from John Q Public. We were massively outspent- but we managed to shut down the Capitol phone system the morning of the vote. Don't worry about the illegals- they've got all kinds of people looking out for them. It's the average American nobody gives a damn about.
You know what? I still completely disagree with you, but point taken.
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:47 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,874,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
Perhaps a better definition of an illegal alien would be an economic terrorist.
Illegal aliens=Economic Terrorists!
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes + some
2,885 posts, read 1,421,488 times
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Most citizens in America were born here, as were our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents.


Huh???? How do you figure that??? Great-grandparents? I would think you speak of the WASPS, and they are in the minority.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes + some
2,885 posts, read 1,421,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
Perhaps a better definition of an illegal alien would be an economic terrorist.
I doubt the money they make would make them any kind of economic threat.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:15 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,896,860 times
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Three things that make the illegal immigration situation in the US terribly wrong:

1)Illegal workers and employers are breaking the law.
2)Most illegal workers are being exploited and treated unfairly.
3)Our unprotected borders are open not only to illegal immigrants, but to potential terrorists as well.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:37 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,003,968 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillietta View Post
Most citizens in America were born here, as were our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents.


Huh???? How do you figure that??? Great-grandparents? I would think you speak of the WASPS, and they are in the minority.
Most people can trace their lineage back several generations. We're not a nation of immigrants. This is a fallacy that many on the liberal side like to expound to justify the presence of illegal aliens.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillietta View Post
I doubt the money they make would make them any kind of economic threat.

Illegal aliens have come here by the millions and millions. Best estimates are that there are somewhere between 20 and 25 million illegals here.

They have destroyed entry level wages all across this country while stealing jobs our very poorest of citizens that desperately need them. They suck tens and tens of billions and billions out of our economy in the form or benefits then drain our economy further by taking billions and billions of their illegally obtained booty and sending it out of the country.

Not to mention the tens of thousands of Americans that have been killed by illegals either by outright murder, vehicular manslaughter, usually while driving drunk. Add in all the crimes these terrorists commit including burglaries, children raped, cars that are either broken into or stolen, they transport and deal drugs, and commit a host of other extremely violent crimes.

In light of all this perhaps the term economic terrorist doesn't quite fit. They're just terrorists plain and simple. In fact, it's safe to say illegal aliens have obviously done more damage to this country than al queda itself has. In fact, they couldn't have done more damage to this country than if they actually formed an army and literally attacked this nation using military force.
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