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Old 11-07-2014, 07:53 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,291,186 times
Reputation: 6451

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Illegals should NEVER have their status "regularized". To do so would be a slap in the face to the millions who came here legally and those who are patiently awaiting their turn to legally immigrate here.

If this country makes life hard for illegals, it will drastically reduce their population. Make E-verify the law of the land and run everybody through the work force through it, then weed out the no-matches. If any of those no-matches engaged in ID theft, then arrest them. Change the law so that despicable loophole that says it's okay for someone to use your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it gets closed once and for all. Once it is closed, go after those who are using someone else's SSN. Go after any employer who refuses to use E-verify. Deal with the whole anchor baby/birth tourism fiasco.

Once illegals realize that they won't be able to find jobs and that their spawn won't automatically be US citizens, they will leave on their own accord.

Will it get rid of all of them? Of course it won't. There will still be scofflaws who pay under the table or family members who aide and abet them but their numbers would be drastically reduced. As for families who aid and abet their illegal family members, prosecute them for doing so.

Secure the borders, put the promised tracking system in place to deal with those who overstay visas.

It's not rocket science, is it? Illegals should NEVER be rewarded with amnesty. Instead, they should be deported.

Again, anyone who makes excuses for illegals, needs to put their own money where their mouth is and support several of them.

Beautifully stated, and I agree with everything you said. It is not rocket science at all, but some seem to want to make it a science.

What Country, would go to bat for Americans who would break the law, and become illegal lets say in good old Mexico. Think we would be rewarded, killed more like it. this Country needs to wise up as others have with their laws concerning illegals.

We are not a revolving door to illegals to come and go as they please. Make things hard for illegals do not hire them. You will see a difference. We are not the world's Police for gosh sakes.
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Old 11-07-2014, 08:11 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,142,160 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Illegals should NEVER have their status "regularized". To do so would be a slap in the face to the millions who came here legally and those who are patiently awaiting their turn to legally immigrate here.
Where does this requirement for fairness come from? Who told you life or governments are fair? You do what you need and can do. Not what you would like to do. There is neither the will or cqpability to deport the illegals. It may even be impossible practically.

Quote:
If this country makes life hard for illegals, it will drastically reduce their population. Make E-verify the law of the land and run everybody through the work force through it, then weed out the no-matches. If any of those no-matches engaged in ID theft, then arrest them. Change the law so that despicable loophole that says it's okay for someone to use your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it gets closed once and for all. Once it is closed, go after those who are using someone else's SSN. Go after any employer who refuses to use E-verify. Deal with the whole anchor baby/birth tourism fiasco.
Nonsense. You just drive the half or so who are working on the books off the books. Probably depress low end salaries for all US workers.
Quote:
Once illegals realize that they won't be able to find jobs and that their spawn won't automatically be US citizens, they will leave on their own accord.

Will it get rid of all of them? Of course it won't. There will still be scofflaws who pay under the table or family members who aide and abet them but their numbers would be drastically reduced. As for families who aid and abet their illegal family members, prosecute them for doing so.
Again they will easily find jobs...just in the grey market. Exactly what we should not encourage. And who is it that will prosecute? Those tens of thousands of cops and prosecutors we don't have?

Quote:
Secure the borders, put the promised tracking system in place to deal with those who overstay visas.

It's not rocket science, is it? Illegals should NEVER be rewarded with amnesty. Instead, they should be deported.

Again, anyone who makes excuses for illegals, needs to put their own money where their mouth is and support several of them.
Then the silly bull shet...Why on earth would I want to support an illegal? Why on earth would an illegal want me to. They want to work and will...supported by a huge and complex support system built over the last 50 years.

You guys simply live in a dream land where reality does not exist. There are 11 million embedded in a protective demographic. They are really well protected. You can pick off the obvious low lying fruit but then it gets very difficult. And that continues as you get deeper into the community. After a while you get very unpleasant reactions.

Costs Billions and billions and takes years and years and still you may not get even most of them.

If you think the US citizenry is ready to pay that bill think again. It ain't gonna happen.
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Old 11-07-2014, 08:43 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Where does this requirement for fairness come from? Who told you life or governments are fair? You do what you need and can do. Not what you would like to do. There is neither the will or cqpability to deport the illegals. It may even be impossible practically.



Nonsense. You just drive the half or so who are working on the books off the books. Probably depress low end salaries for all US workers.


Again they will easily find jobs...just in the grey market. Exactly what we should not encourage. And who is it that will prosecute? Those tens of thousands of cops and prosecutors we don't have?



Then the silly bull shet...Why on earth would I want to support an illegal? Why on earth would an illegal want me to. They want to work and will...supported by a huge and complex support system built over the last 50 years.

You guys simply live in a dream land where reality does not exist. There are 11 million embedded in a protective demographic. They are really well protected. You can pick off the obvious low lying fruit but then it gets very difficult. And that continues as you get deeper into the community. After a while you get very unpleasant reactions.

Costs Billions and billions and takes years and years and still you may not get even most of them.

If you think the US citizenry is ready to pay that bill think again. It ain't gonna happen.
Something about NO amnesty pisses you off.

E verify, NO more birthright, allow LE to arrest ANY illegal alien found and so on. Word will get out real fast and MOST illegals WILL leave the US. The hard heads who won't leave WILL shut up and lay low.
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Old 11-07-2014, 08:55 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,142,160 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Something about NO amnesty pisses you off.

E verify, NO more birthright, allow LE to arrest ANY illegal alien found and so on. Word will get out real fast and MOST illegals WILL leave the US. The hard heads who won't leave WILL shut up and lay low.
Who pays? Always the question? Who pays?

The Feds are not going to pay for random arresting of illegals unless there is an act providing the authority and the funding to deport them all. There is no place near enough funding for that. So first you find 10 billion more or so to pay for the arrest and prosecution and deportation of these illegals. Then we can talk about whether that actually does any good.

And we can consider the impact of changing birth right citizenship right after it passes in the 38th State. And then it will most likely not apply to the existing children.

eVerify does force illegals off some payrolls. It can of course be beaten but some illegals will be forced out of some jobs. Now show the studies that suggest they will leave rather than find a grey market job. Cite a couple I would like to read them...

YOu are still through the looking glass talking the the Cheshire Cat...Reality does not intrude.

And while your phantom ties you up it gets worse. Maybe even far worse.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:09 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Who pays? Always the question? Who pays?

The Feds are not going to pay for random arresting of illegals unless there is an act providing the authority and the funding to deport them all. There is no place near enough funding for that. So first you find 10 billion more or so to pay for the arrest and prosecution and deportation of these illegals. Then we can talk about whether that actually does any good.

And we can consider the impact of changing birth right citizenship right after it passes in the 38th State. And then it will most likely not apply to the existing children.

eVerify does force illegals off some payrolls. It can of course be beaten but some illegals will be forced out of some jobs. Now show the studies that suggest they will leave rather than find a grey market job. Cite a couple I would like to read them...

YOu are still through the looking glass talking the the Cheshire Cat...Reality does not intrude.

And while your phantom ties you up it gets worse. Maybe even far worse.
Ivoc: do me a favor and drop the insults. You know you're losing this argument when you have to accuse me of being a crazy person. Maybe I'm batcrap crazy but; I try to NOT insult people.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:44 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,142,160 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Ivoc: do me a favor and drop the insults. You know you're losing this argument when you have to accuse me of being a crazy person. Maybe I'm batcrap crazy but; I try to NOT insult people.
Sorry you people are perpetuating scenarios hopelessly removed from reality. Likely a testimony of the mind to develop impossible outcomes when the desired one is not available.

I certainly don't suggest you are mentally ill. But it is amazing how people can propagate processes that are simply outside the sphere of reality. Listen to the cry to remove birthright citizenship. There is simply no basis in reality to believe that is doable under any likely circumstance in the next decades. But people here argue as if it is likely a given in the next years. That is a loss of orientation to reality.

So your fondness for solutions that are through the looking glass is your problem not mine. And I hope for the sake of your mental health that you understand these are intellectual arguments that you make not because they are correct but because you have no other that leads to your desired outcome.
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Old 11-08-2014, 12:05 AM
 
Location: USA
18,542 posts, read 13,683,613 times
Reputation: 12130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Ivoc: do me a favor and drop the insults. You know you're losing this argument when you have to accuse me of being a crazy person. Maybe I'm batcrap crazy but; I try to NOT insult people.
He obviously speaks for himself and only his self.
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Old 11-08-2014, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,985,032 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Def time to put a stop to birthright citizenship and, maybe take away birthright from anchor kids under a certain age like make 17 and younger. At least we'd be following other countries like Ireland, Spain, Germany, Japan and so on there. Unless 1 parent is a citizen or at least a legal alien; even if born on US soil, that kid should NOT be given US citizenship. Period.
I agree. The problem is that birthright citizenship is in the Constitution, and amending the Constitution is not easy. I don't see any way that such an amendment would ever pass, unfortunately. Isn't it interesting that those who tend to be the loudest thumpers of that part of the Constitution are often the ones who are loudest about taking away Second Amendment rights (without amending the Constitution and other pesky little details).

We all know that birthrights citizenship was put in the Constitution for slaves. Since that is no longer an issue, it's time to get rid of that statute.
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Old 11-08-2014, 12:49 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,142,160 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
I agree. The problem is that birthright citizenship is in the Constitution, and amending the Constitution is not easy. I don't see any way that such an amendment would ever pass, unfortunately. Isn't it interesting that those who tend to be the loudest thumpers of that part of the Constitution are often the ones who are loudest about taking away Second Amendment rights (without amending the Constitution and other pesky little details).

We all know that birthrights citizenship was put in the Constitution for slaves. Since that is no longer an issue, it's time to get rid of that statute.
YOu also don't listen?

I believe it may be easier to change the 2nd than Birthright citizenship.

But I also believe both are virtually impossible and for the same reason. Both have substantial minorities that oppose changing them. You cannot change the Constitution with substantial minority opposition.
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Old 11-08-2014, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
First off their behavior is illegal. But it is not necessarily criminal. Mostly this stuff is civil rather than criminal.

There is no good mechanism to make illegals life hard enough to send them home. Things are simply better here particularly for those long established. You can do things which will increase the gray market but that is probably worse for the US than it is for the illegals.

Crime convictions are not mass actions against a group of citizen children. Many of the proposals are such an action. Those actions are basically un-American and likely not Constitutional..

And virtually all of this is Bluster with no factual basis. There is no will to do any of it. And there is no funding. So basically you folks are blustering yourself into inaction allowing the problem to worsen while you sit and dream about how good it will be when you put those illegals into their place. Meanwhile the problem will grow and we will end up with 20 million to deal with instead of 11.
Actually you are blustering. We have seen it here in PA when laws were passed making life difficult for illegals that they left.

The crime of entering illegally the first time is civil. The second time not.
The crime of document fraud and ID theft? What happens to a legal citizens if caught doing these crimes?
Tax evasion/ fraud? What happens to a legal caught doing these crimes?
Driving without a license/ insurance?
What happens to a legal immigrant who gets caught doing the above? They face deportation and more.
Why let illegals escape the same fate?
Oh I know. It isn't American to hold be accountable for violating our laws.
Well if we keep allowing people to violate our laws, more will do it. If we reward them for their crimes, more will do it.
Just what exactly entitles illegals to special treatment? I honestly can't think of a single thing. They hide behind their kids, and yet many left children behind without a second thought. No we don't owe them anything, least of all lower accountability than we hold legal citizens and immigrants to.
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