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Old 11-08-2014, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
YOu also don't listen?

I believe it may be easier to change the 2nd than Birthright citizenship.

But I also believe both are virtually impossible and for the same reason. Both have substantial minorities that oppose changing them. You cannot change the Constitution with substantial minority opposition.
Why should anyone listen to you? I mean seriously. You rant at other posters, you act like only you have a solution and your solution is to reward criminal and unwanted behavior. That is no solution that is an enticement for more of the same.
Your method. People will speed so don't give speeding tickets and infant offer discounts for frequent speeders.
People will drink and drive, so don't take their license away, buy them another round instead.
People will cheat on taxes, so give them bigger refunds when caught.
Yes that approach would work really well.
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Old 11-08-2014, 07:19 AM
 
31,541 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8397
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Actually you are blustering. We have seen it here in PA when laws were passed making life difficult for illegals that they left.

The crime of entering illegally the first time is civil. The second time not.
The crime of document fraud and ID theft? What happens to a legal citizens if caught doing these crimes?
Tax evasion/ fraud? What happens to a legal caught doing these crimes?
Driving without a license/ insurance?
What happens to a legal immigrant who gets caught doing the above? They face deportation and more.
Why let illegals escape the same fate?
Oh I know. It isn't American to hold be accountable for violating our laws.
Well if we keep allowing people to violate our laws, more will do it. If we reward them for their crimes, more will do it.
Just what exactly entitles illegals to special treatment? I honestly can't think of a single thing. They hide behind their kids, and yet many left children behind without a second thought. No we don't owe them anything, least of all lower accountability than we hold legal citizens and immigrants to.
Same thing that happened in Arizona and other states that cracked down on illegal aliens. They left in droves. There are only so many places they can run and hide before they realize that they aren't wanted here and there are no incentives for them to remain here. As for their kids why reward them for their parent's lawbreaking? The whole family needs to leave together and go back to their homelands.

It was proven in 1986 that granting amnesty only encourages more illegal immigration to get in on the next amnesty. When does it end?

As for changing birthright citizenship all that needs to be done is to have the SC re-visit the 14th as to the writer's intent and clarify it once and for all. It wouldn't matter what minorities or anyone else thinks that wants the scam to continue.
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Old 11-08-2014, 09:56 AM
 
Location: USA
18,549 posts, read 13,688,608 times
Reputation: 12135
Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
I agree. The problem is that birthright citizenship is in the Constitution, and amending the Constitution is not easy. I don't see any way that such an amendment would ever pass, unfortunately. Isn't it interesting that those who tend to be the loudest thumpers of that part of the Constitution are often the ones who are loudest about taking away Second Amendment rights (without amending the Constitution and other pesky little details).

We all know that birthrights citizenship was put in the Constitution for slaves. Since that is no longer an issue, it's time to get rid of that statute.
Or interpretated as it was meant to be, not as a loop hole for people to break our immigration laws.

And as we see from the current administration the Constitution and Congress can be bypassed, manipulated and interpretated in many ways. The next POTUS is not going to be Illegal friendly.
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:02 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,145,995 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Actually you are blustering. We have seen it here in PA when laws were passed making life difficult for illegals that they left.

The crime of entering illegally the first time is civil. The second time not.
The crime of document fraud and ID theft? What happens to a legal citizens if caught doing these crimes?
Tax evasion/ fraud? What happens to a legal caught doing these crimes?
Driving without a license/ insurance?
What happens to a legal immigrant who gets caught doing the above? They face deportation and more.
Why let illegals escape the same fate?
Oh I know. It isn't American to hold be accountable for violating our laws.
Well if we keep allowing people to violate our laws, more will do it. If we reward them for their crimes, more will do it.
Just what exactly entitles illegals to special treatment? I honestly can't think of a single thing. They hide behind their kids, and yet many left children behind without a second thought. No we don't owe them anything, least of all lower accountability than we hold legal citizens and immigrants to.
It is odd...why do people in places like PA get so interested in this issue? PA has an illegal population well below the national average. Something like 37th on the per capita list. There is of course Hazelton but that had a strongly anti-Hispanic flavor.

Nevada, which in some lists is the highest per capita illegal population does not find it anywhere near as interesting. A problem certainly, particularly in the schools, but more a part of the overall problem of high growth than anything particular about the illegals.

I see no particular reason the illegal community gets a pass on crime. Serious crime deport them. Otherwise treat them like everyone else.

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the illegals. Much more a practical problem. If we had properly treated the problem in the late 1980s we would have no illegal immigration problem. That is where the screw up occurred. The present discussion is about how to fix it. And the solutions proposed are just quite lacking in reality.

Sure AZ got some motion out of their anti-illegal laws. But mostly the reaction was from the Hispanic community. Lots of Hispanics left over what they felt was a hostile climate. And there is pretty good evidence that Arpaio harassed Hispanics in general rather than illegals.

The strategies proposed are simply rants against the wind. All we need is a new and revolutionary Supreme Court decision and we will fix birth right citizenship...sure right around the corner. All we need is eVerify...ignoring the fact that almost half of illegals already work off the books.

Face it. You folk have not a prayer of even denting the problem. And what makes it worse is that you maintain the present situation. And that provides the opportunity for another wave of illegals.
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Old 11-08-2014, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Dallas
5,463 posts, read 4,581,673 times
Reputation: 15592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Home construction is booming here. Go to new subdivisions and very little English is spoken.

You'll still see some white Plumbers, Electricians and other trades but you'll almost never see a Black man working. It's certainly not due to low wages or a lack of jobs.
Used to be the unions would have apprenticeship classes in carpentry, masonry, and other trades. Years ago I participated in a carpentry program and there was a good mix of male/female, black/white. Now the illegals are performing those jobs at such a low rate the union members can't compete.

Yes, construction is booming here. You have whole groups of Mexicans working on the same job, and most are there because a co-worker recommended them. The likelihood of a white or black person getting hired onto a crew like that is almost nil. Take a look at Craigslist jobs.....most of the construction jobs require you speak Spanish.

There are still plenty of whites/blacks who would gladly do the work the Mexicans have taken over.
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Old 11-08-2014, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
It is odd...why do people in places like PA get so interested in this issue? PA has an illegal population well below the national average. Something like 37th on the per capita list. There is of course Hazelton but that had a strongly anti-Hispanic flavor.

Nevada, which in some lists is the highest per capita illegal population does not find it anywhere near as interesting. A problem certainly, particularly in the schools, but more a part of the overall problem of high growth than anything particular about the illegals.

I see no particular reason the illegal community gets a pass on crime. Serious crime deport them. Otherwise treat them like everyone else.

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the illegals. Much more a practical problem. If we had properly treated the problem in the late 1980s we would have no illegal immigration problem. That is where the screw up occurred. The present discussion is about how to fix it. And the solutions proposed are just quite lacking in reality.

Sure AZ got some motion out of their anti-illegal laws. But mostly the reaction was from the Hispanic community. Lots of Hispanics left over what they felt was a hostile climate. And there is pretty good evidence that Arpaio harassed Hispanics in general rather than illegals.

The strategies proposed are simply rants against the wind. All we need is a new and revolutionary Supreme Court decision and we will fix birth right citizenship...sure right around the corner. All we need is eVerify...ignoring the fact that almost half of illegals already work off the books.

Face it. You folk have not a prayer of even denting the problem. And what makes it worse is that you maintain the present situation. And that provides the opportunity for another wave of illegals.
I hppen to live 40 miles from Hazelton. The only ones who called it anti-hispanic were the illegals and their supporters. Not surprising. You know the same kind who get up in arms when you state the fact that hispanics account for the vast majority of illegals.
Hazelton passed their laws and illegals fled.
Why does a community have to wait under a problem becomes a crisis before reacting to it?
Treated like anyone else? How about treated like we would a legal immigrant? As a legal immigrant. work without a green card and you face deportation. AS a legal immigrant. Document fraud, claiming to be a citizen, tax fraud, tax evasion and even a DUI and you can be deported. Why should illegals who forced themselves upon us be held to a lower standard?
They shouldn't be and nor should they ever be rewarded.
Tuesday spoke volumes. The majority disagrees with the democrats approach.
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Old 11-08-2014, 01:15 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,145,995 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I hppen to live 40 miles from Hazelton. The only ones who called it anti-hispanic were the illegals and their supporters. Not surprising. You know the same kind who get up in arms when you state the fact that hispanics account for the vast majority of illegals.
Hazelton passed their laws and illegals fled.
Why does a community have to wait under a problem becomes a crisis before reacting to it?
Treated like anyone else? How about treated like we would a legal immigrant? As a legal immigrant. work without a green card and you face deportation. AS a legal immigrant. Document fraud, claiming to be a citizen, tax fraud, tax evasion and even a DUI and you can be deported. Why should illegals who forced themselves upon us be held to a lower standard?
They shouldn't be and nor should they ever be rewarded.
Tuesday spoke volumes. The majority disagrees with the democrats approach.
Actually Hazelton passed their laws and the Hispanic fled. They never knew what the actual illegal population in Hazelton was...any more whether it decreased. Good discussion...

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/sit...ton_052010.pdf

Interesting that Hazelton has a long history of discrimination against immigrants. And that includes some of the segments now doing the discriminating.
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Old 11-08-2014, 01:45 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Actually Hazelton passed their laws and the Hispanic fled. They never knew what the actual illegal population in Hazelton was...any more whether it decreased. Good discussion...

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/sit...ton_052010.pdf

Interesting that Hazelton has a long history of discrimination against immigrants. And that includes some of the segments now doing the discriminating.
Times change. Us "Irish" def got the short end of the stick a LOT till at least WW 2. Tho looking back on it: we had to EARN respect like cutting down the drinking, hooliganism and so on kinda like what's going on with more and more American Blacks taking care of business compared to the hood rat problem in 2014. Too; most Irish came to the US legally.
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Old 11-08-2014, 03:02 PM
 
31,541 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8397
Id like to know where in our immigration laws does it state that the only way to get deported is to have committed a serious crime. For one thing ID theft is a serious crime. The law states all you have to do to be deported is to be caught here illegally. End of story.
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Old 11-08-2014, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Actually Hazelton passed their laws and the Hispanic fled. They never knew what the actual illegal population in Hazelton was...any more whether it decreased. Good discussion...

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/sit...ton_052010.pdf

Interesting that Hazelton has a long history of discrimination against immigrants. And that includes some of the segments now doing the discriminating.
The hispanic that fled no doubt were either here illegally or supporting those here illegally. Some might have left because they didn't like the attitude towards illegals, but Hazleton made it very difficult for illegals, regardless of ethnic back ground, race or country of origin. Not 1 law singled out hispanics. Maybe hispanics took it that way because most illegals also happen to be hispanic?
Your link is from a fairly biased source, but to be fair. Immigrants have all faced some intolerance throughout history. Today not so much. Animosity may be directed at hispanics due to the fact they account for about 70% of all illegals. They are also the ones who have displaced so many legal citizens from their trades by lowballing the wages.
One of the biggest complaints was Multiple families of illegals living in single family rental units. The property taxes paid by said property owned hardly paid for the burden. One landlord talked about go in to a unit because the toilet was backed up to find cardboard walls erected . Personally I feel he knew what was going on but played innocent for the benefit of his neighbors.
The fact is not only Hazleton saw illegals flee, but other cities who attempted to enact such laws saw the same result. If done nation wide, it would have an impact. How much of one we won't know until we try. It is not a super cure, or a cure all, but it is a beginning.
Make the penalty severe for anyone caught hiring illegals and far fewer people will take the risk.
One example of why it doesn't work today is that electronics company who was recently caught paying India wages to immigrants from India. The fine was $3,500.00 That company posted record profits for that quarter. It is small wonder that any business would take the risk of getting caught. The gain by far out weighs the risk.

Critics of immigration reform have a point

We have the problem we do today because current law has no teeth. The immigration reform bill did little to address this.
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