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Old 11-08-2014, 06:37 PM
 
32,020 posts, read 14,777,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
I don't believe it. You got something that justifies this amount ?

His stop at the border = deportation.
And Obama can get back with us when he deports all illegal aliens as they are found as our immigration laws state.
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Old 11-08-2014, 06:53 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,228,657 times
Reputation: 5400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
I don't believe it. You got something that justifies this amount ?

His stop at the border = deportation.
But a New York Times analysis of internal government records shows that since President Obama took office, two-thirds of the nearly two million deportation cases involve people who had committed minor infractions, including traffic violations, or had no criminal record at all. Twenty percent — or about 394,000 — of the cases involved people convicted of serious crimes, including drug-related offenses, the records show.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/07/us...ata-shows.html
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Old 11-08-2014, 06:55 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,228,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
And Obama can get back with us when he deports all illegal aliens as they are found as our immigration laws state.
Cite? Should be simple. Just the law that says they must deport all illegal aliens.
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Old 11-08-2014, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,962,798 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Half truths at best. The Feds have to relese some of these criminals by a Supreme Court and other Court rulings. Purportedly 72% of the Homicides were required to be released.

Some are discretionary and are driven by resource constrains. The Feds claim sufficient resources to hold the major perpetrators but the minor ones are sometimes released based on resources.

Virtually all these criminals will be deported or at least ordered so in the end.

One might also note that Obama has deported around 400,000 criminals to date.
The 400,000 number has been debunked as funny math many times already.
As for the rest of your post.
RELEASED is not deported.
your words, unedited.
The Feds have simply prioritized who they will deport. Simple illegal presence is not high enough on the list to get you deported. Get convicted of a felony though...out you go.
I have provided links showing that isn't true. Dishonest people tend to avoid obeying the law, showing up for court dates or any of the other norms that honest people adhere to.
1 more time.
ICE data: 36,000 illegals with criminal convictions, including homicide, were released during deportation proceedings « Hot Air
193 homicide convictions (including one willful killing of a public official with gun)

426 sexual assault convictions

303 kidnapping convictions

1,075 aggravated assault convictions

1,160 stolen vehicle convictions

9,187 dangerous drug convictions

16,070 drunk or drugged driving convictions

303 flight escape convictions…

These people were released onto the streets of America... They all look like felonies to me. Obviously it isn't working. Lack of real enforcement makes the criminal bold.
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Old 11-08-2014, 07:36 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,228,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The 400,000 number has been debunked as funny math many times already.
Cite a few of the many...I have not seen any...

Quote:
As for the rest of your post.
RELEASED is not deported.
your words, unedited.
The Feds have simply prioritized who they will deport. Simple illegal presence is not high enough on the list to get you deported. Get convicted of a felony though...out you go.
I have provided links showing that isn't true. Dishonest people tend to avoid obeying the law, showing up for court dates or any of the other norms that honest people adhere to.
Virtually all of whom end up deported or ordered deported. Some may escape and have to be hunted down. Happens...

Quote:
1 more time.
ICE data: 36,000 illegals with criminal convictions, including homicide, were released during deportation proceedings « Hot Air
193 homicide convictions (including one willful killing of a public official with gun)

426 sexual assault convictions

303 kidnapping convictions

1,075 aggravated assault convictions

1,160 stolen vehicle convictions

9,187 dangerous drug convictions

16,070 drunk or drugged driving convictions

303 flight escape convictions…

These people were released onto the streets of America... They all look like felonies to me. Obviously it isn't working. Lack of real enforcement makes the criminal bold.
No more factual this time then last.

DUIs are not felonies.

According to the government 72% of the homicides were released by court requirements. If they come from the right country you cannot hold them nor deport them. Others are similar. Some are old dudes on their way out. They likely will never get deported...they will die however.

Others were considered less risky to the population than some held. So you let the least troubled go even if they have a conviction. If you don't like it get you congressional folk to fund an expansion of the detaining facilities. Note though they are expensive to run. The other thing is to quadruple the size of the immigration courts. They provide a large amount of the long delays in the system.
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Old 11-08-2014, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,962,798 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Cite a few of the many...I have not seen any...



Virtually all of whom end up deported or ordered deported. Some may escape and have to be hunted down. Happens...



No more factual this time then last.

DUIs are not felonies.

According to the government 72% of the homicides were released by court requirements. If they come from the right country you cannot hold them nor deport them. Others are similar. Some are old dudes on their way out. They likely will never get deported...they will die however.

Others were considered less risky to the population than some held. So you let the least troubled go even if they have a conviction. If you don't like it get you congressional folk to fund an expansion of the detaining facilities. Note though they are expensive to run. The other thing is to quadruple the size of the immigration courts. They provide a large amount of the long delays in the system.
Or hold the deportation hearing while they are incarcerated and deport them upon release?
As I said before. Ordered deported is not the same as Deported. Case in point Obama's Aunt who defied a deportation order.
Back to 1 of your earlier posts.
394,000 cases of illegals involved in serious crimes??? Speaks volumes of the caliber of people illegals are. said it before and I'll say it again. Honest, good people don't choose to live a criminal life style. Dishonest people do. Honest people don't choose ID fraud, Tax fraud,or any of the many other crimes required for an illegal do exist in this country as an illegal. Unless they live with an legal citizen or immigrant that provides for them they are committing crimes to exist here.
Really there is no redeeming value to illegals.
As for the DUI not being felonies.
A first-time DUI, (or, in some states, "DWI" -- short for "driving while intoxicated") is normally charged as a misdemeanor, not a felony. But if someone was injured as a result of the drunken driving, some states will raise the charge to a felony -- and if the victim dies, some of these states will charge the driver with reckless homicide.
Also, in a number of states, a DUI will be raised to a felony if it is the driver's second, third, or even fourth DUI offense.
To find out what the laws are in your state, see DUI Laws & Penalties by State.
"Misdemeanor" and "felony" are emotionally charged words, but what do they really mean? Whether a conviction ends up as a misdemeanor or a felony depends on the type and length of the punishment for the crime. Misdemeanors carry the possibility of incarceration in the county or local jail for one year or less; felonies usually result in a state prison term of more than a year.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...ony-28099.html
We don't know the disposition of the 16000+ DUI's, along with that how many were also driving without a license? How many were involved in an accident where someone was injured etc.
The rest of the crimes listed are obvious felonies and the Fed released these illegals with felonies. So your statement that if you commit a felony you go isn't true at all, even though the law says that you go. Poor enforcement plain and simple. Before you mention cost for deporting them. What does it cost to retry them when they repeat? What does it cost for homicide trial? Kidnapping? Rape? And what is the dollar amount for the victims? A good percentage of this scum will repeat.

Last edited by tinman01; 11-08-2014 at 08:05 PM..
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Old 11-08-2014, 07:56 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,385,855 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Cite a few of the many...I have not seen any...



Virtually all of whom end up deported or ordered deported. Some may escape and have to be hunted down. Happens...



No more factual this time then last.

DUIs are not felonies.

According to the government 72% of the homicides were released by court requirements. If they come from the right country you cannot hold them nor deport them. Others are similar. Some are old dudes on their way out. They likely will never get deported...they will die however.

Others were considered less risky to the population than some held. So you let the least troubled go even if they have a conviction. If you don't like it get you congressional folk to fund an expansion of the detaining facilities. Note though they are expensive to run. The other thing is to quadruple the size of the immigration courts. They provide a large amount of the long delays in the system.
Some DUI's ARE felonies.

Tho it goes without saying that just being in the US illegally needs to be a felony; maybe just a Class 6 but still 1. No more of this "misdemeanor" stuff. Sheesh!
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Old 11-08-2014, 08:04 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,228,657 times
Reputation: 5400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Some DUI's ARE felonies.

Tho it goes without saying that just being in the US illegally needs to be a felony; maybe just a Class 6 but still 1. No more of this "misdemeanor" stuff. Sheesh!
Felony DUI generally means you killed someone. It is pretty rare. And one should not deport such folks. Send them up for 20 years.

It is not a felony and unlikely to be. I used to travel commercially and was often an "illegal alien". Often with corporate sponsorship.

The present system is rational. Civil unless that does not work...then criminal.
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Old 11-08-2014, 08:27 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,228,657 times
Reputation: 5400
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Or hold the deportation hearing while they are incarcerated and deport them upon release?
OK by me but it does not fix the problem. You end up hearing the cases of those incarcerated rather than those who are not. I don't see the incarcerated as the bigger problem.


Quote:
As I said before. Ordered deported is not the same as Deported. Case in point Obama's Aunt who defied a deportation order.
Irrelevant. Singular old folk do strange things. We make allowances.

Quote:
Back to 1 of your earlier posts.
394,000 cases of illegals involved in serious crimes??? Speaks volumes of the caliber of people illegals are.
No it does not. There are a large number of criminal types from the drug culture mixed into all this. They have nothing to do with the classical "I want a job" immigrant.

Quote:
said it before and I'll say it again. Honest, good people don't choose to live a criminal life style. Dishonest people do. Honest people don't choose ID fraud, Tax fraud,or any of the many other crimes required for an illegal do exist in this country as an illegal. Unless they live with an legal citizen or immigrant that provides for them they are committing crimes to exist here.
Nonsense. People do what they think is best for their family. And the book right now would say those who ignored US immigration law did just fine. YOu opposed to the rising of the Warsaw Ghetto?

Quote:
Really there is no redeeming value to illegals.
As for the DUI not being felonies.
A first-time DUI, (or, in some states, "DWI" -- short for "driving while intoxicated") is normally charged as a misdemeanor, not a felony. But if someone was injured as a result of the drunken driving, some states will raise the charge to a felony -- and if the victim dies, some of these states will charge the driver with reckless homicide.
Also, in a number of states, a DUI will be raised to a felony if it is the driver's second, third, or even fourth DUI offense.
To find out what the laws are in your state, see DUI Laws & Penalties by State.
"Misdemeanor" and "felony" are emotionally charged words, but what do they really mean? Whether a conviction ends up as a misdemeanor or a felony depends on the type and length of the punishment for the crime. Misdemeanors carry the possibility of incarceration in the county or local jail for one year or less; felonies usually result in a state prison term of more than a year.

Is a DUI a felony? - Nolo.com
We don't know the disposition of the 16000+ DUI's, along with that how many were also driving without a license? How many were involved in an accident where someone was injured etc.
The facts are DUI is not a felony in the normal cases. It can be. But that is not the reality.

Quote:
The rest of the crimes listed are obvious felonies and the Fed released these illegals with felonies. So your statement that if you commit a felony you go isn't true at all, even though the law says that you go. Poor enforcement plain and simple. Before you mention cost for deporting them. What does it cost to retry them when they repeat? What does it cost for homicide trial? Kidnapping? Rape? And what is the dollar amount for the victims? A good percentage of this scum will repeat.
They still get deported. Which is what I stated. A felony means the US will deport you. There are cases where the deportation may be delayed forever. That is US law. But the order is there just no way to carry it out.

If you don't like this change the state law and lock up those who do certain crimes forever. Think about it...you got this really bad dude who should not be loose in society so you send him elsewhere to prey on other people? That makes you feel good?
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Old 11-08-2014, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,962,798 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
OK by me but it does not fix the problem. You end up hearing the cases of those incarcerated rather than those who are not. I don't see the incarcerated as the bigger problem.



Irrelevant. Singular old folk do strange things. We make allowances.



No it does not. There are a large number of criminal types from the drug culture mixed into all this. They have nothing to do with the classical "I want a job" immigrant.



Nonsense. People do what they think is best for their family. And the book right now would say those who ignored US immigration law did just fine. YOu opposed to the rising of the Warsaw Ghetto?



The facts are DUI is not a felony in the normal cases. It can be. But that is not the reality.



They still get deported. Which is what I stated. A felony means the US will deport you. There are cases where the deportation may be delayed forever. That is US law. But the order is there just no way to carry it out.

If you don't like this change the state law and lock up those who do certain crimes forever. Think about it...you got this really bad dude who should not be loose in society so you send him elsewhere to prey on other people? That makes you feel good?
You assume that they show up for deportation. Many do not. They aren't honest people. Obama's aunt wasn't a fluke.
Your first point. You make it an either or, which it isn't.
The typical I want a job type. Seems like a lot of them get caught DUI, driving without a license or insurance and whoops ID fraud.
Warsaw Ghetto? I confess that I don't understand the reference. Honest people don't lead criminal lifestyles. Honest people tend to live within the law. At any rate what they want for their families isn't our problem. Our problem is their willingness to violate any of our laws that they disagree with. This willingness speaks to their character. Conversely you will have a % of legal immigrants violate our laws, but far fewer.
Your last point. Send them back to their own country. They created the problem, let them deal with the problem. Let them know his crime and they can decide his fate. Save us the money of jailing him.
Its been a good discussion. Have a good night.
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