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Old 12-31-2007, 08:53 PM
 
Location: So. Cal/Central Valley
46 posts, read 139,638 times
Reputation: 29

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I don't understand what people don't get? how does inhabiting a land for oh say...thousands of years not make it not yours? Sure they didn't claim land they had a different culture, but that doesn't make it right to say.."oh it was ok that we came in and took this land because they never claimed it".
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:25 PM
 
4,711 posts, read 10,520,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floridabound09 View Post
Last time I checked the Indians even butchered each other and they NEVER laid a legal claim to any land that I know of.
They meant to make a claim....they probably had car trouble on the way to the courthouse.
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doily View Post
I don't understand what people don't get? how does inhabiting a land for oh say...thousands of years not make it not yours? Sure they didn't claim land they had a different culture, but that doesn't make it right to say.."oh it was ok that we came in and took this land because they never claimed it".
Because a bigger, badder group of people took, OK, stole the land.

Before anyone gets upset at my blunt statement: it was not just the American Indians that this happened to. The Germans lost significant chunks of their territory after WW II and were forced out as well.

All the more reason to nip this La Raza crap in the bud.

As has been posted in the past; prior to the arrival of the White people, Indians were raiding each other back and forth.
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:14 PM
 
67 posts, read 37,422 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
In all seriousness, much of it was simple inter-cultural misunderstanding. Even when American Indians "sold" a piece of property to the Europeans, and even when Europeans sat down and "signed papers" to make a deal, the fact is that most American Indians simply had no concept of "private property"--or of a formal legal system. It would be like our understanding of "buying the wind"...we can't conceive of that. Early-day Indians simply couldn't conceive of "owning" the land, anymore than "owning" the moon--or the stars--or the weather. It sounded like nonsense to them, and if the buyers 'pushed through' a deal, it was often just based on wishful thinking---AND the Indians often failed to realize that once a white BOUGHT the property, no one thereafter was free to just "stroll across it" anymore...this was a very hard concept to grasp, coming from a culture without private property.
You are correct.

I have spent time with Aborigines in Australia and Indians in Canada (by the way I refuse to use the PC terms and the people never have a problem with that) drinking beer, gambling and even talking about their history.

The essence of their cultures, and they are quite similar, is that they don't have a concept of ownership. Well untill now that is - certain tribal leaders in Aussie would like their "spiritual homelands" not to be violated, even though the geographical locations of these spiritual homelands happen to coincide with bauxite deposits ...

I believe this non-materialistic view of the world is true also of old African Negro culture also, where slavery was imposed upon captured warriors by the winning side as a form of symbolic domination rather than actual possession. The captured slaves were not owned as such, but simply displayed as tokens of war, and traded back to the losing tribe.

I have no quarrel with Indians, in fact I have no quarrel with anyone, and not you. To think we can't learn from primative cultures is narrow. And I have great respect for cultures such as the Australian Aboriginal, who can live on bugs and without water for a week (although not always without a beer). He be a better man than me ...
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:51 PM
 
Location: On my way to FLA baby !!
1,999 posts, read 1,182,711 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
They meant to make a claim....they probably had car trouble on the way to the courthouse.
OMG that is so funny. Maybe they couldnt afford the high gas prices back then..............
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:23 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
So many letter writers have based their arguments on how this land is made up of immigrants. Ernie Lujan for one, suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because the people now in question aren't being treated the same as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports of entry.

Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people like Mr. Lujan why today's American is not willing to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new American households and some even changed the ir names to blend in with their new home.

They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture.

Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, n o welfare, no labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity. Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany , Italy , France and Japan None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France , no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.

And here we are in 2006 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country. I'm sorry, that's not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900's deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags.

And for that suggestion about taking down the Statue of Liberty, it happens to mean a lot to the citizens who are voting on the immigration bill. I wouldn't start talking about dismantling the United States just yet.
http://www.oilstick.com/blog/922.htm (broken link)
I will just share my story as a Braxican, I don't call myself an immigrant even though I'm one because I spend time around the world, but these 2 countries are special to me because Mexico was the country that brought me to this earth, raised me and where it all started, and Brazil is the country where I met the love of my life and I became an independent man.

It all started when I was resting in my home at mexico after having a busy weekend playing around at some parties, that a friend from chile asked me if I wanted to go to Brazil and play, I said of course!!! he introduced me to the organizers who didn't speak english, neither spanish, so we had to communicate in portunhol, it took us some desire to understand each other and good will to do it but it was possible, then it was agreed, they told me it was a small party, so they could only pay for my flight from Mexico to Brazil and my expenses there, but no fee, I said ok, it's my first time outside Mexico so why not?

Then the day came, I was all excited, I went to the airport waiting for the guy who was going to pick me up, he was a mechanic from Varig one of Brazil's leading flight companies, we were supposed to meet at the airport and when I arrived it was confirmed that there was a flight reserved for me, however as it is one of those flights they give to employees, they depend on free space on flights, and this one was full, so they told me I couldn't board it, and the guy who was going to pick me up didn't show up, I thought oh well, let's have faith and feel prince peaceful sensation inside the heart, and hope for the best... Then he called me!! strangely enough he didn't speak a word of spanish or I a word of portuguese, but we understood each other perfectly!!!! he explained me what happened, and he told me don't worry, tomorrow we'll go to brazil, if the flight's full again, i'll go with the pilots and you get a seat.

And off we went!

to be continued
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:34 AM
 
902 posts, read 505,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I will just share my story as a Braxican, I don't call myself an immigrant even though I'm one because I spend time around the world, but these 2 countries are special to me because Mexico was the country that brought me to this earth, raised me and where it all started, and Brazil is the country where I met the love of my life and I became an independent man.

It all started when I was resting in my home at mexico after having a busy weekend playing around at some parties, that a friend from chile asked me if I wanted to go to Brazil and play, I said of course!!! he introduced me to the organizers who didn't speak english, neither spanish, so we had to communicate in portunhol, it took us some desire to understand each other and good will to do it but it was possible, then it was agreed, they told me it was a small party, so they could only pay for my flight from Mexico to Brazil and my expenses there, but no fee, I said ok, it's my first time outside Mexico so why not?

Then the day came, I was all excited, I went to the airport waiting for the guy who was going to pick me up, he was a mechanic from Varig one of Brazil's leading flight companies, we were supposed to meet at the airport and when I arrived it was confirmed that there was a flight reserved for me, however as it is one of those flights they give to employees, they depend on free space on flights, and this one was full, so they told me I couldn't board it, and the guy who was going to pick me up didn't show up, I thought oh well, let's have faith and feel prince peaceful sensation inside the heart, and hope for the best... Then he called me!! strangely enough he didn't speak a word of spanish or I a word of portuguese, but we understood each other perfectly!!!! he explained me what happened, and he told me don't worry, tomorrow we'll go to brazil, if the flight's full again, i'll go with the pilots and you get a seat.

And off we went!

to be continued
And what has this got to do with illegals?
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:00 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark-Baby View Post
And what has this got to do with illegals?
If you want to immigrate to a country you have to be tricky and know how can you use the laws to your advantage

Love is the light that will dissolve all barriers between people, families and nations.

to be continued
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:52 AM
 
902 posts, read 505,464 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
If you want to immigrate to a country you have to be tricky and know how can you use the laws to your advantage

Love is the light that will dissolve all barriers between people, families and nations.

to be continued
That is what I thought. All you care about is being to cheat any country you desire. Thanks for showing that.
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:32 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark-Baby View Post
That is what I thought. All you care about is being to cheat any country you desire. Thanks for showing that.
This is what i'll show.

OOOOOOOMMMMMM, Shanti, Prema, Bhakti.

We took the plane, and we arrived to Brazil, however it was too late to get to the party and I lost it, I thought there is no casuality, but causality, so there was a reason of this happening and me being here, as soon as we got here, my friend introduced me to his family, and they spoke to me in portuguese, I didn't understand a word!!! how could I understand him but not them? beats me, I tried to say something back but what? just send good energy my heart said.

ॐ, Shanti, Prema, Bhakti

Holy Spirit, Peace, Divine love and Devotion.

Then we arrived to the house of the friend who booked me to the party, I showed him the music I made with pure prema for this party to him, even though I didn't play, he told me don't worry, you got here so we'll get some parties for you.

Then he showed me his heart, his family, his mother and his culture.

It wasn't long that I was speaking my first words in portuguese, I felt like a toddler asking lots of questions, how do you say this? is it right to say it in this way? hey, that's a funny word!!

My friend's mother, and his motherly love and patience made me understand!

Thank you God, Thank you Divine mother!

As I spent more days on their beautiful city, Alvorada, I got to know the people, the owner of the cyber cafe or lan house as they call them here became my good friend thanks to my internet addiction hehehehehe he always gave me good discounts, and my friend was trying to find some parties for me, he started to introduce me to the psychedelic gang of his state, Rio Grande do Sul!

After a nice conversation, I met some organizers and closed 3 parties, one was a small private party, the other one was a night club, and one was a 3 day festival in a place called Garapiá, thank you God, because we should we grateful for good things, ever!!! oooooohhhhh Garapiá of my heart!

After some more days of meeting new friends, and discovering a new environment, having fun speaking some weird stuff called portunhol I got to my first party, oh man what excitement, it was a beautiful place, only in Brazil you have that power, that nature, that beauty!!! I played late in the party there wasn't many people at that hour, but they danced and they did it with their souls!

it was in this party that I saw her, and when I saw her I saw only light!!

Divine mother, reduce my body to ashes and give me one made of light!!!

Booom yoga!!!!

To be continued
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