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Old 01-02-2008, 04:32 PM
 
67 posts, read 37,522 times
Reputation: 36

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
They cost us tremendously in many ways - culture, job market, schools, medical care, welfare costs, etc.

How can we say they are no drain on us if they had to close down all those hospitals in California because of illegals who couldn't pay their bills? Now, the legal immigrants and citizens don't have those hospitals for their own healthcare.

Look at the cost with bilingual education in the schools, and interpreters in hospitals and elsewhere that we pay for, the depression in our wages, the crime that adds to what we already have especially the gangs, what about waiting in line wasting time at a hospital because illegals are there for a cold, and on and on.

It's not just financial, and I don't CARE if they do bring us something in that area (which I doubt), there's lots of other ways of "draining" us.

We just don't NEED illegals. We have enough poverty already.
Illegals are a disaster for America. I just posted this link on another thread about these bums that are subverting America.

It's a well written report on how illegals are devastating the Health-Care system in the United States, published in the Spring 2007 edition of The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, not exactly a boobs and beer rag.

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:14 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,711,257 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Membership in the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is less than four percent of American physicians, who seem to favor the "comfort zone" over freedom in medicine.
The Association you speak exaggerates when it states less than 4 % it is much less.
The journal is a curious right wing rag.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:09 PM
 
608 posts, read 881,634 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
No, I read both. I just don't understand what you're insinuating and/or rationalizing away with your statement.
To say southern Mexicans have not progressed beyond milpa farming and would never understand democracy is total crap. Europeans coming from mostly democratic societies are no more likely to be law abiding citizens than anyone else. There is simply no correlation between democracy and regard for law or civil obedience. If that were the case then how does one explain the children we are raising today? How do you explain events like Columbine, university and mall shootings? All of which have occurred in predominately white, democratic, suburban societies here in the US. If illegals are to blame for our society going to hell in a hand basket then so too are the parents who are raising the children that commit such atrocities of of which occur in one of the oldest democratic nations in the world.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:10 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,624,231 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
To say southern Mexicans have not progressed beyond milpa farming and would never understand democracy is total crap. Europeans coming from mostly democratic societies are no more likely to be law abiding citizens than anyone else. There is simply no correlation between democracy and regard for law or civil obedience. If that were the case then how does one explain the children we are raising today? How do you explain events like Columbine, university and mall shootings? All of which have occurred in predominately white, democratic, suburban societies here in the US. If illegals are to blame for our society going to hell in a hand basket then so too are the parents who are raising the children that commit such atrocities of of which occur in one of the oldest democratic nations in the world.
It seems obvious to me that if illegal immigration were an all-around benefit to the US, the answer would be to double or triple it, and watch us all become rich...obviously, no one is ready to condone this---for obvious reasons---(like, it isn't true, for one). Illegal immigration enriches a few--but it negatively impacts other individuals, AND is costly to society as a whole.

Beyond that, though, HoustonCynic, your post commits a classic oversight in reasoning...quite common, but flawed. Whether illegal immigration brings with it a certain degree of "petty crime", I won't try to guess (I think it's pretty obvious, though, that it does)--the mistake is in your comparisons--- The "Columbine" example is ludicrous. Many milions of Americans are affected in every facet of daily life by "petty" crime, and various sorts of law-breaking. It affects everything from credit-card interest rates to the price of merchandise (which includes the cost of thefts)...."Columbine"-type events are EXCEEDINGLY rare...Statistically, they affect almost NO one---their very rarity is what makes them front-page news. To use that as an example of the "normal" crime committed by "American citizens" is just silly. Campus massacres are not normal events at all. But theft, burglary, assault, and property crimes ARE distressingly common. And THAT'S the crime we're talking about.

Just what its connection is with Illegal immigration is debatable...but it's obvious there is one...
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:26 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,908,909 times
Reputation: 3656
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeache View Post
I guess, the only fundamental difference is that today, many of these Hispanics are illegal, but other than that,
That is kind of a big deal, don't you think? You know, laws??
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:55 AM
 
Location: escondido,ca
194 posts, read 400,853 times
Reputation: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The only people who want them here are the would-be elitists who want them for their cheap labor. They also put their own profits way ahead of what is good for this country. Privatize the profits but socialize the costs -- because even though it's not good to bring in millions of uninsured, illiterate and impoverished people who won't learn the language any time soon -- these businessmen plain don't care. They'll work for little, they'll get food stamps, Medicaid, WIC and housing subsidies to enable them to live here with our high cost of living.
That's funny, I'm what you would call the "working poor" of this country. I know the work ethic of these people, and all this talk about them sponging off society is a crock! Do you know how many people in this country use the emergency room as their family doctor? At least undocumented workers use the system, because their employers, like many employers of unskilled workers, offer no health benefits. Citizen or not, if somebody works hard and contributes to our economy, they have every right to go to the emergency room to seek medical treatment. The reason the system is over burdened, is because this is compounded with the scores of Americans who make it a lifestyle of living off the system. As a single parent, I had to rely on medicaid, WIC and food stamps for years, and always worked hard. Most others I know who receive this kind of help, have no prospects or desire to live any other way. I don't see that with immigrants, illegal or otherwise. These people are hungry to work, that's why they come here!
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,217,823 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
That's funny, I'm what you would call the "working poor" of this country. I know the work ethic of these people, and all this talk about them sponging off society is a crock! Do you know how many people in this country use the emergency room as their family doctor? At least undocumented workers use the system, because their employers, like many employers of unskilled workers, offer no health benefits. Citizen or not, if somebody works hard and contributes to our economy, they have every right to go to the emergency room to seek medical treatment. The reason the system is over burdened, is because this is compounded with the scores of Americans who make it a lifestyle of living off the system. As a single parent, I had to rely on medicaid, WIC and food stamps for years, and always worked hard. Most others I know who receive this kind of help, have no prospects or desire to live any other way. I don't see that with immigrants, illegal or otherwise.
Quote:
These people are hungry to work, that's why they come here!
That's why they're coming here "ILLEGALLY"?! Key word "ILLEGAL".

As usual you OBL's always skip the main issue. You only see what you want to see. You see your working friends as good people and assume the whole 20million were all the same. Your either blind or just plain ignorant. They're not all the same! The illegals that sponge off society and use free publics service as a routine make the ones just trying to make a better living look bad.
There are more bad illegals than good ones and that's what makes them all look bad. And then again there's the main issue,"Illegal".
With that hanging over all of their heads, none of them deserve credit for anything.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,703,966 times
Reputation: 2091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeto View Post
That's funny, I'm what you would call the "working poor" of this country. I know the work ethic of these people, and all this talk about them sponging off society is a crock! Do you know how many people in this country use the emergency room as their family doctor? At least undocumented workers use the system, because their employers, like many employers of unskilled workers, offer no health benefits. Citizen or not, if somebody works hard and contributes to our economy, they have every right to go to the emergency room to seek medical treatment. The reason the system is over burdened, is because this is compounded with the scores of Americans who make it a lifestyle of living off the system. As a single parent, I had to rely on medicaid, WIC and food stamps for years, and always worked hard. Most others I know who receive this kind of help, have no prospects or desire to live any other way. I don't see that with immigrants, illegal or otherwise. These people are hungry to work, that's why they come here!
I too know their work ethic, having to deal with them for atleast the past 10 years. Some work some dont but the general thoughts of them are F*** America!!!!!!!!!! Yea they have said this to me and my husband many many times. Right now my husband is the only non mexican on the job site, out of 24 guys three are very respectful to him and have actually asked him for help with their English, the rest crack jokes at his expense and yell things at him. He isnt directly their boss, since they work for the subs, but he is the jobsite boss but they could care less. They come when they want and leave when they want, sometimes they dont come at all. This is the norm and has been since we have been in construction.
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:17 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,694,322 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
It seems obvious to me that if illegal immigration were an all-around benefit to the US, the answer would be to double or triple it, and watch us all become rich...obviously, no one is ready to condone this---for obvious reasons---(like, it isn't true, for one). Illegal immigration enriches a few--but it negatively impacts other individuals, AND is costly to society as a whole.

Beyond that, though, HoustonCynic, your post commits a classic oversight in reasoning...quite common, but flawed. Whether illegal immigration brings with it a certain degree of "petty crime", I won't try to guess (I think it's pretty obvious, though, that it does)--the mistake is in your comparisons--- The "Columbine" example is ludicrous. Many milions of Americans are affected in every facet of daily life by "petty" crime, and various sorts of law-breaking. It affects everything from credit-card interest rates to the price of merchandise (which includes the cost of thefts)...."Columbine"-type events are EXCEEDINGLY rare...Statistically, they affect almost NO one---their very rarity is what makes them front-page news. To use that as an example of the "normal" crime committed by "American citizens" is just silly. Campus massacres are not normal events at all. But theft, burglary, assault, and property crimes ARE distressingly common. And THAT'S the crime we're talking about.

Just what its connection is with Illegal immigration is debatable...but it's obvious there is one...
Let us not forget the "victimless" crime of identity theft.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,217,823 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Let us not forget the "victimless" crime of identity theft.
Victimless? the person the ID is being stolen from is the victim.
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