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Old 01-01-2008, 04:28 PM
 
7,139 posts, read 12,895,974 times
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A "limited government" friend of mine ran into a real big problem, when he refused to pay his taxes. Idealistically, he thought he could talk his libertarian lingo to the feds, and he wound up in jail for six months. I think he chose the wrong battle... Anyway, he became a tax-paying respectable citizen, got his doctorate, now is probably teaching his brand of tyranny to his students!
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
Foreigners purchase land in the US all the time. But that's a separate issue from immigration. For example, many illegal aliens in America own homes.

I do believe in limited government. But securing our borders is one of those issues that the central government needs to be responsible for. It goes to protecting the American people. Also, if too many foreigners come to the United States it could drive up land prices.
I should've been a bit more specific. If an American is willing to sell his land to a foreigner, should not the foreigner be able to live on that land without intrusion from the government. Shouldn't ANY individual, not just Americans be able to use his/her property in anyway he/she sees fit, so long as he/she doesn't violate the property rights of another?

So, do you believe that ALL immigration should be stopped, since you are worried about immigrants driving up land prices? In other words, how secure do you think our border should be? To what extent do we allow the government to limit the rights of human beings to protect the country?
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The USA cannot support a limitless population and with very generous welfare programs, we attract far too many immigrants who come mainly for that.
We Libertarians have a solution for this as well, but that is another thread.

Quote:
Employers will bring in unlimted numbers of dirt cheap workers because obviously it's about the profit motive. These cheap workers and the unemployed Americans will demand services like free health care from the government.
Again, libertarianism has a solution for this.

Quote:
Most of the illegals for example are actually Socialist big government types. They vote, they will not vote for limited government types who would cut their food stamps, free lunches in free schools and so on. Billions of starving people brought in will not achieve any liberty for this nation.
Property rights shouldn't be extended only to those of a particular political persuasion. ALLl humans' property rights should be recognized and supported.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes -- doubling the population every couple of decades by bringing in large foreign populations of failed nations will only increase our need for oil and other resources to support those fast growing populations. That means wars in the Middle East. There's no way around that. Bringing millions of peole up from tropical nations where they will need hundreds of gallons of heating fuel, gas for their transportation and so on just makes us that much ore oil-desperate.
A larger population would also increase tax revenue, especially if the Fair Tax is implemented.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:39 PM
 
17,281 posts, read 24,969,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
I should've been a bit more specific. If an American is willing to sell his land to a foreigner, should not the foreigner be able to live on that land without intrusion from the government. Shouldn't ANY individual, not just Americans be able to use his/her property in anyway he/she sees fit, so long as he/she doesn't violate the property rights of another?

So, do you believe that ALL immigration should be stopped, since you are worried about immigrants driving up land prices? In other words, how secure do you think our border should be? To what extent do we allow the government to limit the rights of human beings to protect the country?


If a foreigner buys land in the United States, but has not been given clearance to actually LIVE here by the government, they're going to have to rent it out, or sell it.

ALL immigration should not be stopped, but there are policy objectives that are important functions of immigration laws. Those policy implications outweigh your property rights.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by txcollegeboy View Post
Libertarianism is dangerous, I may leave the Republican party because of it. That said, foreigners purchasing homes in the US drives up real estate prices, and prices many Americans out of a house.
Actually, libertarianism is closer to the original intent of the Republican party than the current so-called Republican establishment. The current Republican party left the party years ago.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:44 PM
 
7,367 posts, read 6,528,719 times
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Originally Posted by lilypad View Post
A limited amount of government is needed to prevent the chaos and anarchy of individuals who exert little or no good judgment and wisdom in cases such as this. "Limited" certainly a relative term, but as limited as possible and still keep law and order. It seems a Libertarian view takes the stance that the person perpetrating their "right" is the ONLY person on earth that matters, and in a reality based world, is just not the case. Take off blinders and get vision checkup.

PS America's giant tit is drying up....
Libertarianism doesn't equal anarchy, though many anarchists are in the Libertarian Party because of a lack of another party of similar views. Libertarians actually take the stance that protects ALL individual property rights, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, country of origin, political persuasion, or sexual orientation. Most of us regard national security and property rights protection as the only legitimate uses of the federal government, with property rights taking precedence.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Zanman View Post
Just one point here - you can only enter into a binding contract provided there is a governmental entity that will enforce that contract, with that entity backed up, if necessary, by machine-guns. Enforcement of contracts is in fact the prime responsibility of government.

This is the downfall of Libertarianism, or should I say that version that want's no government at all. At best it's idealistic, at worst it's anarchy.
Very few libertarians want no government at all, as addressed in my previous post. I do believe that the government has a role in contract enforcement, however, it should NOT be involved in the terms, only to the extent that a party's property rights are violated.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
And even the "limited-government" folks run into problems in day-to-day life. Working with your fellow man on the "honor system" is fine, 95% of the time--but what do you do when someone comes along WITHOUT honor?----Answer?----You either "call the cops"---or you "clobber" the person---or you walk away, and he prevails. But in no case, can you just "leave him alone"..or ignore him. In human society, no one can truly "go it alone"---all you can do is CHOOSE your favorite "tyranny"---
Yes, the government should be involved when an individual's property rights are violated.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:53 PM
 
7,367 posts, read 6,528,719 times
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Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
If a foreigner buys land in the United States, but has not been given clearance to actually LIVE here by the government, they're going to have to rent it out, or sell it.
Thus the problem. Why should their property rights be violated by the government, yet yours' protected? Why should the federal government have any say over the use of or the ownership of any property? Should not the inalienable rights pertain to all humans instead of just Americans?

Quote:
ALL immigration should not be stopped, but there are policy objectives that are important functions of immigration laws. Those policy implications outweigh your property rights.
Why would you not want to stop all immigration since you are afraid of them increasing housing prices?
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