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Old 11-14-2014, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Cape Cod
9,855 posts, read 7,138,438 times
Reputation: 18027

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When I started this post I was hoping to get evidence for the positives of amnesty but as I suspected there isn't much and most people feel that amnesty will do nothing but hurt America and its legal citizens of all colours.

One comment was that the North East doesn't see or have a real problem with illegals which is so not true. We might not have as many as border states do but we have our share that break the laws and commit crimes. What is worse is our liberal state gov. often view the illegal lawbreakers as people without a choice and incapable of making good decisions so they get state aide. We had one guy that killed a person in an auto crash and his lawyer through an interpreter argued that the illegal who was from a South american indian tribe lacked the enzyme to process the alcohol?? Seriously.
As a result of this our Massachusetts legislatures would like to give a provisional drivers license to illegals. ??? Seriously..
The positives of giving amnesty to millions is having more legal workers contributing taxes. More people paying into Obamacare. More people voting Democrat. That is the plan but since when did a Gov plan workout? The negatives far out weigh the positives and the American citizenry understands this but our President seems to have no clue or flat out does not care about the middle and lower class folks who will be buried by the stroke of his Executive Order poisoned pen.
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Old 11-14-2014, 12:45 PM
 
42 posts, read 35,601 times
Reputation: 69
I donít think a better solution would be to just have free immigration. European Union has already such system within in the Euro-Zone. United States is already a member of NAFTA and similar system with all of North America could be implemented. It would put pressure on Mexico to clean up its own systems and so the other countries within the NAFTA-zone. I think that would be a solution for United States. I understand why Europeans donít want immigration Ė partly because of their extensive welfare state but also Europe is the home of the indigenous people of Europe (white people of different ethnicities) and so they will continue to be the majority in their homeland just as other peoples around the world. United States is a multicultural nation and was founded as such and so I donít see a problem with uncontrolled borders to United States at least within NAFTA.
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:16 PM
 
Location: NJ
10 posts, read 9,217 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
When I started this post I was hoping to get evidence for the positives of amnesty but as I suspected there isn't much and most people feel that amnesty will do nothing but hurt America and its legal citizens of all colours.

One comment was that the North East doesn't see or have a real problem with illegals which is so not true. We might not have as many as border states do but we have our share that break the laws and commit crimes. What is worse is our liberal state gov. often view the illegal lawbreakers as people without a choice and incapable of making good decisions so they get state aide. We had one guy that killed a person in an auto crash and his lawyer through an interpreter argued that the illegal who was from a South american indian tribe lacked the enzyme to process the alcohol?? Seriously.
As a result of this our Massachusetts legislatures would like to give a provisional drivers license to illegals. ??? Seriously..
The positives of giving amnesty to millions is having more legal workers contributing taxes. More people paying into Obamacare. More people voting Democrat. That is the plan but since when did a Gov plan workout? The negatives far out weigh the positives and the American citizenry understands this but our President seems to have no clue or flat out does not care about the middle and lower class folks who will be buried by the stroke of his Executive Order poisoned pen.
A major problem with this is that this is an AMNESTY, and there is NO talk about forcing them to become legalized so that they have to pay into the system. Also, the fact that they would even ALLOW illegals to vote is a farce. This is why I also am a proponent of requiring ID to vote, so that you can PROVE that you belong here.
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: NJ
10 posts, read 9,217 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylock View Post
I don’t think a better solution would be to just have free immigration. European Union has already such system within in the Euro-Zone. United States is already a member of NAFTA and similar system with all of North America could be implemented. It would put pressure on Mexico to clean up its own systems and so the other countries within the NAFTA-zone. I think that would be a solution for United States. I understand why Europeans don’t want immigration – partly because of their extensive welfare state but also Europe is the home of the indigenous people of Europe (white people of different ethnicities) and so they will continue to be the majority in their homeland just as other peoples around the world. United States is a multicultural nation and was founded as such and so I don’t see a problem with uncontrolled borders to United States at least within NAFTA.
I hope that you are kidding. NAFTA has 0 to do with immigration, legal or illegal. You do know that NAFTA means North American Free Trade Act, do you not? Unless we are talking about making them slaves and buying them with no import tax, NAFTA is completely irrelevant to this topic. Unless all NA countries are supporting each other monetarily, then any illegal immigration supporters can take themselves south of the border. Also, last time I checked, we in the US aren't allowed to freely move to Canada without proper documentation. There is no reason that the US should be supporting the incompetence of and continuous lack of want to improve of the countries that these aliens hail from.

Also, I can not stand when general conversations/debates turn into political arguments - it just shows the lack of intelligence of people using those arguments. That said, this is obviously a political issue, and unfortunately for us as US Americans, there is no good way to swing this because of how extreme both sides of the aisle are. This is why the country is going to hell in a hand basket, whether these staunch Pro-Americans want to admit it or not.

Last edited by southpaw826; 11-14-2014 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:33 PM
 
3,857 posts, read 3,166,758 times
Reputation: 2457
The "only" positive is that WHEN this Idiot Moron Obama attempts this BS is that the Republicans will unite and impeach this clown.

How's that for a crowning achievement to add to his legacy of FAILURE ?
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:39 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,127,983 times
Reputation: 6949
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saxon Lion View Post
This will hurt white Americans the most. Why aren't they making a stand against it? If you all tolerate it then dont complain later on.
This is where you are wrong. The people this will hurt the most are Blacks, the legal Hispanic immigrants (who will face backlash), and the native born Hispanic Americans (Puerto Ricans, Californios, Tejanos, etc) who will also face backlash for merely being Hispanic or speaking Spanish.

Obozo is looking to create more race tensions and troubles. He wants us to be at eachother's throats so he (and the Democratic Party) can turn around and blame it on those evil Whitey Republicans for political gain ahead of 2016. We must not fall into this trap!
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:42 PM
 
Location: NJ
10 posts, read 9,217 times
Reputation: 29
It is an incredibly confusing situation with this guy because on some issues I completely agree with his decision. (i.e. Net Neutrality stance, the IDEA of ACA), but then he comes back with this kind of crap, and unless it is just scare tactics to get the other side to do something, I honestly believe, as an Obama supporter, that this one issue alone, should be an impeachable offense. This is because, in essence what he is saying, is he doesn't give a damn about the people that he is supposed to be working for.
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:47 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,127,983 times
Reputation: 6949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylock View Post
I donít think a better solution would be to just have free immigration. European Union has already such system within in the Euro-Zone. United States is already a member of NAFTA and similar system with all of North America could be implemented. It would put pressure on Mexico to clean up its own systems and so the other countries within the NAFTA-zone. I think that would be a solution for United States. I understand why Europeans donít want immigration Ė partly because of their extensive welfare state but also Europe is the home of the indigenous people of Europe (white people of different ethnicities) and so they will continue to be the majority in their homeland just as other peoples around the world. United States is a multicultural nation and was founded as such and so I donít see a problem with uncontrolled borders to United States at least within NAFTA.
I have nothing against an "American Union" - provided that it were a sort of super-nation ruled by the US as a larger extension of the United States.
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Old 11-14-2014, 02:17 PM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,245,289 times
Reputation: 1004
Default Not scare tactics. Re-post here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw826 View Post
It is an incredibly confusing situation with this guy because on some issues I completely agree with his decision. (i.e. Net Neutrality stance, the IDEA of ACA), but then he comes back with this kind of crap, and unless it is just scare tactics to get the other side to do something, I honestly believe, as an Obama supporter, that this one issue alone, should be an impeachable offense. This is because, in essence what he is saying, is he doesn't give a damn about the people that he is supposed to be working for.

Politics is a lot like Spy vs. Spy

You know the cartoon?

We know the Dems controlled Congress for 2 years of Obama's first term but did not pass an immigration reform although that was key to Obama's election platform.

Why not?

Because Obama recognizes that immigration reform, which the public equates to amnesty for illegals, is a third rail that will haunt the party that implements it. Obama's goal all along is to "Put it on the Republicans."

Here's the ploy.

Obama goaded the Republicans, by executive order, to be promulgated like a papal bull, granting deferred deportation (means nada; zip; deportations won't happen); and permissions to work for illegals. This is not truly amnesty but stops deportations and ties the hands of ICE (who all get a raise for doing even less) which he hopes will push the Republican Congress to pass a "Democratic-lite" immigration law to counter his executive order.

Despite the wet dreams of some pundits, this Republican immigration reform will not include the expulsion of the millions of illegal aliens now in the US.

It will provide a convoluted track to citizenship for the illegals, which while law, will be ignored by the illegals, and the status quo will remain the same with millions here illegally but can't be deported.

But the Democrats can now declare that the Republicans granted amnesty to the illegals. Win/win.

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Old 11-14-2014, 02:43 PM
 
31,710 posts, read 14,622,494 times
Reputation: 8455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylock View Post
I donít think a better solution would be to just have free immigration. European Union has already such system within in the Euro-Zone. United States is already a member of NAFTA and similar system with all of North America could be implemented. It would put pressure on Mexico to clean up its own systems and so the other countries within the NAFTA-zone. I think that would be a solution for United States. I understand why Europeans donít want immigration Ė partly because of their extensive welfare state but also Europe is the home of the indigenous people of Europe (white people of different ethnicities) and so they will continue to be the majority in their homeland just as other peoples around the world. United States is a multicultural nation and was founded as such and so I donít see a problem with uncontrolled borders to United States at least within NAFTA.
You do realize that if we allowed uncontrolled immigration that we would have 2 billion impoverished crashing our shores, don't you? Surely, you can see the complete downside of that? A nation without borders ceases to be a nation also. Where do you suggest we put all these people and supply jobs and resources for all of them without harming our own citizens?

No, we aren't a multi-cultural nation per se but a country with an identifying culture and language with minority ones living among us. It's the same thing in every country in the world. We all have our own unique identities and I wouldn't want to see that changed and I certainly wouldn't want to us turn into a Third World country with 2 billion uneducated, unskilled needy people coming here. I suggest you really think about the ramifications of that.
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