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When I started this post I was hoping to get evidence for the positives of amnesty but as I suspected there isn't much and most people feel that amnesty will do nothing but hurt America and its legal citizens of all colours.
One comment was that the North East doesn't see or have a real problem with illegals which is so not true. We might not have as many as border states do but we have our share that break the laws and commit crimes. What is worse is our liberal state gov. often view the illegal lawbreakers as people without a choice and incapable of making good decisions so they get state aide. We had one guy that killed a person in an auto crash and his lawyer through an interpreter argued that the illegal who was from a South american indian tribe lacked the enzyme to process the alcohol?? Seriously.
As a result of this our Massachusetts legislatures would like to give a provisional drivers license to illegals. ??? Seriously..
The positives of giving amnesty to millions is having more legal workers contributing taxes. More people paying into Obamacare. More people voting Democrat. That is the plan but since when did a Gov plan workout? The negatives far out weigh the positives and the American citizenry understands this but our President seems to have no clue or flat out does not care about the middle and lower class folks who will be buried by the stroke of his Executive Order poisoned pen.
I will just address your last paragraph. If these illegals were deported instead in turn wouldn't unemployed Americans get their jobs back and be paying taxes also? IMO, there are no positives with illegal immigration.
I don’t think a better solution would be to just have free immigration. European Union has already such system within in the Euro-Zone. United States is already a member of NAFTA and similar system with all of North America could be implemented. It would put pressure on Mexico to clean up its own systems and so the other countries within the NAFTA-zone. I think that would be a solution for United States. I understand why Europeans don’t want immigration – partly because of their extensive welfare state but also Europe is the home of the indigenous people of Europe (white people of different ethnicities) and so they will continue to be the majority in their homeland just as other peoples around the world. United States is a multicultural nation and was founded as such and so I don’t see a problem with uncontrolled borders to United States at least within NAFTA.
Uh; I'm gonna say ALL of the European countries that are "open" with each other either have their acts together or damn near. Word is Turkey wants in but; the other Schengen countries are saying "no way".
Think of Mexico as Turkey and Canada and the US as being like the Schengen gang.
I will just address your last paragraph. If these illegals were deported instead in turn wouldn't unemployed Americans get their jobs back and be paying taxes also? IMO, there are no positives with illegal immigration.
Not saying Cape Cod is one, but don't you dare try using that logical argument with pro-illegal immigrants. /s These are the ones that will continue to insist that the jobs will still go unfilled if the illegals aren't there to work them because all unemployed "think they are too good" for these jobs, or all unemployed will just decide instead to sit and collect welfare. However, the reality is that not all unemployed are lazy, welfare-collecting slugs (nor am I saying all welfare collectors are bums). The newsflash is, that whether these unemployed thought at one point that they were entitled to better jobs, they still have the right to have these jobs that illegals are holding now, if they want them. Of course the other problem is that these jobs would probably just cease to exist because the people hiring them wouldn't be able to get slave labor any longer.
We know the Dems controlled Congress for 2 years of Obama's first term but did not pass an immigration reform although that was key to Obama's election platform.
Why not?
Because Obama recognizes that immigration reform, which the public equates to amnesty for illegals, is a third rail that will haunt the party that implements it. Obama's goal all along is to "Put it on the Republicans."
Here's the ploy.
Obama goaded the Republicans, by executive order, to be promulgated like a papal bull, granting deferred deportation (means nada; zip; deportations won't happen); and permissions to work for illegals. This is not truly amnesty but stops deportations and ties the hands of ICE (who all get a raise for doing even less) which he hopes will push the Republican Congress to pass a "Democratic-lite" immigration law to counter his executive order.
Despite the wet dreams of some pundits, this Republican immigration reform will not include the expulsion of the millions of illegal aliens now in the US.
It will provide a convoluted track to citizenship for the illegals, which while law, will be ignored by the illegals, and the status quo will remain the same with millions here illegally but can't be deported.
But the Democrats can now declare that the Republicans granted amnesty to the illegals. Win/win.
Actually I consider it a lose/lose but this is because everything just has to be politically correct these days and this is why nothing is actually going to get done that actually SHOULD get done (i.e. actively turning back illegals crossing the border, or deporting them handful at a time such as when coming into everyday contact with authorities so as to not spend any EXTRA tax payer dollars). Everyone thought the moves AZ was making against illegals a couple years ago was just so radical and ridiculous. Now, it looks like that is EXACTLY what needs to be happening.
Not saying Cape Cod is one, but don't you dare try using that logical argument with pro-illegal immigrants. /s These are the ones that will continue to insist that the jobs will still go unfilled if the illegals aren't there to work them because all unemployed "think they are too good" for these jobs, or all unemployed will just decide instead to sit and collect welfare. However, the reality is that not all unemployed are lazy, welfare-collecting slugs (nor am I saying all welfare collectors are bums). The newsflash is, that whether these unemployed thought at one point that they were entitled to better jobs, they still have the right to have these jobs that illegals are holding now, if they want them. Of course the other problem is that these jobs would probably just cease to exist because the people hiring them wouldn't be able to get slave labor any longer.
I doubt that these employers would close their doors without illegal alien labor. Besides, if they can't stay afloat using authorized workers then they need to close their doors. All they do is pass their illegal worker's social costs on to us anyway.
Don't be so sure of that. I wouldn't for a second put it past big business to close up shop because their profits are cut into due having to pay REAL wages and as a result taking their big guaranteed salaries and running. Unfortunately, since it hasn't had to be tested, I have no cases of such examples. I do agree that they pass those social costs onto us every chance they get though.
This will hurt white Americans the most. Why aren't they making a stand against it? If you all tolerate it then dont complain later on.
I think it will hurt blacks way more since they are already having to deal with the highest unemployment percentage and now they will have to compete with illegals for a job...so either welfare or homeless will be more to look forward too and maybe Democrats can give more to charities since others will give less since this King Obama will have to beef up money to help his subjects.
Don't be so sure of that. I wouldn't for a second put it past big business to close up shop because their profits are cut into due having to pay REAL wages and as a result taking their big guaranteed salaries and running. Unfortunately, since it hasn't had to be tested, I have no cases of such examples. I do agree that they pass those social costs onto us every chance they get though.
No, if anyone closed their doors it would be the smaller businesses such as mom and pop ones. Big business doesn't even need to employ illegal aliens they have so much capital.
No, if anyone closed their doors it would be the smaller businesses such as mom and pop ones. Big business doesn't even need to employ illegal aliens they have so much capital.
Most mom and pop business employ mom and pop. And daughters and sons.
I have been reading this thread with interest because I at one time was a legal immigrant and am now an American citizen. I've written this a few times but here goes again: I filled out many forms, was finger printed and FBI checked, had to prove my educational history - work history - residential history for the 10 years prior to my application. I had to have physicals, prove that I had skills and abilities that would reasonably ensure that I would not become a financial burden to this country. I had to travel hundreds of miles each time I was summoned for an interview. I waited for years for final approval.
There are a million people every year all across the world who are now going through exactly the same thing that I went through. What this president is proposing is a slap in the face to me, to everyone currently here who went through the legal system, and a slap in the face to everyone across the entire world who is currently trying to wade through the red tape involved in legal immigration.
What is also a slap in the face are the so-called amnesty-advocates, the excuse-making politicians and president, and those who came here illegally who protest in the streets and yell outside the White House DEMANDING that we listen to their voices and give them a free pass. To hell with all of them. Who do they think they ARE? They break the law, burden American taxpayers, expect special treatment and accomodation, and WE are the racists and xenophobes who hate poor people, who won't give those "wanting a better life" an opportunity (A fair shot? These types of slogans don't just happen in a vacuum), who want to break up families.
In five pages of this thread I have not read one compelling "positive to amnesty". The American people do not consider illegal immigration (as it pertains to amnesty) to be a pressing issue. Rather, as it has always been, decent paying jobs IS a pressing issue to the unwashed masses struggling to pay their bills every month.
The Democrats OWNED all three branches of government for two years, and the president made many speeches telling latino groups that he couldn't go it alone. That we are a nation of laws. That we have a PROCESS in place that requires Congress to make changes to immigration laws. Why did he say those things? Because he wanted to put latino groups (who were pressing hard for amnesty) on hold. So that he focus all of his political capital into passing Obamacare. For the next couple of years there was much pressure to institute tougher gun laws. And now............regardless of what he said years ago to keep pushing latino groups to the back burner...........he has decided that he MUST - NOW make unilateral decisions.
He is the president of the United States. As such he has a moral obligation not to pander to what will eventually become a huge new Demcratic voting block, but rather to focus all of his attention on the American people who continue to struggle every day. He has a legal obligation to follow the Constitution.
Everyone has to ask themselves the very question that was posed in the OP. Do YOU know what good can come to this country, by allowing millions of the uneducated and low skilled with unknown medical and criminal histories to enter? Because I don't.
I think it will hurt blacks way more since they are already having to deal with the highest unemployment percentage and now they will have to compete with illegals for a job...so either welfare or homeless will be more to look forward too and maybe Democrats can give more to charities since others will give less since this King Obama will have to beef up money to help his subjects.
I don't think Obama cares about his fellow blacks and them having to compete with for jobs with all these soon to be legal illegals. Some of the worse racism I have seen has been black on black. It is all pretty sad and does nothing for America.
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