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Old 01-03-2008, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
1,489 posts, read 2,027,371 times
Reputation: 818
Yeah, it makes it tough to make a point when your grammar is weak. It takes the edge off any otherwise harsh comment.

 
Old 01-03-2008, 04:41 PM
 
206 posts, read 261,561 times
Reputation: 82
Why does the anti-enforcement crowd insist on the pretense that the circumstances surrounding the legal immigration that took place a century ago are the same as onslaught of illegal immigration happening now? Or, that policies that may have been appropriate during a former period in history are necessarily appropriate now?

Average Americans are the ones who are suffering. If, after reading all our posts, you do not understand our tribulations, then perhaps you are the heartless one.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
4,072 posts, read 4,614,903 times
Reputation: 2821
Quote:
Originally Posted by bklynchapin View Post

My point in including the graph is that we have had various waves of immigration that have changed the face of this nation. When the Irish came, the skies were falling because they were Catholic and considered by many to be drunkards, criminals and dim-witted. They were also poor and low-skilled laborers. When the Eastern European Jews came, the skies again were falling. They were considered unassimilable hordes with backwards religious and cultural beliefs that would never be loyal to the U.S. When the Italians came, the skies again were falling, because again they were Catholic, considered criminal and did not speak English. They had much nostalgia for the old country and returned to Italy often. All of these groups lived in their own ghettos in many cities. Now xenophobic fears dictate that it is the Mexicans’ turn. Again the skies are falling. History has proven that they too will weather the storm. I just wish we could learn a little more from our history.
First of all. Those early immigrants didn't break the law to get here. They came on boats and were quarantined and undesirables were sent back. The rest were legal and accounted for.

Secondly, and more importantly, they came at a time when this country was a true democracy as opposed to the socialist state we have now. A person was expected to sink or swim. If you could not find a way to earn your keep, you were S.O.O.L.. People were expected to pay their own way and could not be a burden on society even if they wanted to. In this day and age, with all the social programs in this country, we have to be able to regulate who comes into the country. An overabundance of uneducated and unskilled immigrants is a losing proposition for America. It brings our whole society down. We need more educated immigrants who can help lift this country up. This is not to say we cant take ANY poor uneducated immigrants, but we must be able to regulate and skew the numbers to our advantage as a nation. This is the whole reason immigration laws were formed. The illegal aliens are circumventing this process and doing irreparable damage.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 04:50 PM
 
138 posts, read 337,052 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue pekoe View Post
Why does the anti-enforcement crowd insist on the pretense that the circumstances surrounding the legal immigration that took place a century ago are the same as onslaught of illegal immigration happening now? Or, that policies that may have been appropriate during a former period in history are necessarily appropriate now?

Average Americans are the ones who are suffering. If, after reading all our posts, you do not understand our tribulations, then perhaps you are the heartless one.
Why does the anti-immigrant crowd insist on forgetting that the exact same arguments they are currently making were once used against all of those earlier waves of immigrants (they take jobs, they increase crime, they lower wages). Why do they insist on repeating ugly xenophobic tacticts that have been judged as wrongful and mean-spirited historically?

And sorry, but you don't get to decide what an average American feels on this issue. Many would agree with you, but many would not. I think this forum at the very least shows that.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 23,899,123 times
Reputation: 4808
Quote:
Originally Posted by bklynchapin View Post
Why does the anti-immigrant crowd insist on forgetting .....
I have seen few, if any, "anti IMMIGRANT" posters here -
 
Old 01-03-2008, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,063 posts, read 11,350,003 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by bklynchapin View Post
Why does the anti-immigrant crowd insist on forgetting that the exact same arguments they are currently making were once used against all of those earlier waves of immigrants (they take jobs, they increase crime, they lower wages). Why do they insist on repeating ugly xenophobic tacticts that have been judged as wrongful and mean-spirited historically?

And sorry, but you don't get to decide what an average American feels on this issue. Many would agree with you, but many would not. I think this forum at the very least shows that.
No, no. Why do YOU keep trying to equate legal immigration with the illegal onslaught? I have not seen anyone here call for an end to legal immigration, yet you call us the "anti-immigrant crowd." All of your "xenophobia" arguments crumble unless you can label us as "anti-immigrant," which is NOT true. So, quit the game-playing.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 05:03 PM
 
206 posts, read 261,561 times
Reputation: 82
I think the plan here is to "shame" us into doing what we all know is against our best interest...But, I am not ashamed of wanting our laws enforced and all the good that comes from it.

Most Americans want our immigration laws enforced. If that weren't the case, Congress would have opted for another disastrous amnesty and candidates wouldn't have to care much about how they present their positions on the issue. But, anti-enforcement people like to pretend that our views are of some fringe minority group because they can't come to grips with the reality that they are the ones who are out of step with rest of America.

Last edited by blue pekoe; 01-03-2008 at 05:14 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 25,991,605 times
Reputation: 3654
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue pekoe View Post
A head's up to the pro-enforcement crowd:

The previous poster provides us with a glimpse of the intelligence, tolerance, and overall charm of future generations in this country if we don't do something to stop the invasion.


Indubitably.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 25,991,605 times
Reputation: 3654
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue pekoe View Post
Why does the anti-enforcement crowd insist on the pretense that the circumstances surrounding the legal immigration that took place a century ago are the same as onslaught of illegal immigration happening now? Or, that policies that may have been appropriate during a former period in history are necessarily appropriate now?

Average Americans are the ones who are suffering. If, after reading all our posts, you do not understand our tribulations, then perhaps you are the heartless one.
IMHO: the pro illegal crowd is losing the war of public opinion hence their increasingly inane comments.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,063 posts, read 11,350,003 times
Reputation: 3539
You're right, blue pekoe. But I wish they would chew on this: If any group is allowed to break a law and then use a mob mentality (with all of its bells and whistles, such as calling people who object "haters" and the like) to get the country to accede to its demands, what sort of precedent does that set and how could it ever end? If it works, then a vast assortment of groups exist that would use the same tactics to get what they want. The result would be chaos.

We are seeing increasingly that America has become a place of competing special interest groups, lacking a national cohesion. Everyone wants to grab what they can with little thought as to how it affects others or the whole. If this continues, it will lead to our downfall. We can barely assure fair treatment for our own citizens and now foreigners are claiming they have rights here, too. If this is allowed to become a precedent, God help the next generation.
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