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Old 01-02-2008, 08:02 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1284

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Just how many patients do you feel a hospital can treat at completely no charge at all? Patients who do not intend to pay any part of their bill, and who don't bother with obtaining health insurance and do not qualify for Medicaid and Medicare?

Nurses have to be paid, physicians treating them must be paid, laboratory, pharmachy, all kinds of therapists treating the illegals must be paid.

Sure they can raise up the costs to the paying patients -- and that is of course being done -- to a ridiculous degree -- driving the costs of insurance and the government programs way up -- but even with that -- there comes a point.

What do you suppose happens when the free patients outnumber the paying patients?
And increasing the costs to paying patients often results in more of them losing insurance coverage so it is a vicious circle.
Most hospitals have written off part of their costs as charity care each year. There have always been citizens who either could not pay at all or could only pay a portion of their bill. Even allowing for the fact that there are more uninsured Americans than there were 15 years ago, I don't think this alone is what drives hospitals to close their doors. IMO, the enormous costs of providing mandated care to illegal aliens is the straw that finally breaks the camel's back.

 
Old 01-02-2008, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
This post reinforces my contention that much of the anti illegal movement is racially based. I have a hunch that if 12 million young French women poured over the border illegally we would not her so much squacking.
Speak for yourself there.

If a bunch of Hungarians came here illegally and had the same attitude as most of the illegals from Mexico; I would be uber pissed to say the least--------and, I am of 1/2 Hungarian lineage.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 09:24 PM
 
608 posts, read 880,836 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Hey, Lukeache. Instead of trying to "educate" us, how about "educating" and CONVINCING the insurance companies of your position? When I lived on the Border, my auto insurance rates were incredibly high, due to their stated risks of my car being stolen, hit by an uninsured driver, and otherwise damaged because of my proximity to the border. I have NO accidents or violations. Not even a parking ticket.

When I moved 500 miles north of the Border, my rates were reduced to the tune of $300 per year. But Texas rates are still high because it's a border state. We are LIVING with the reality of being close to the Border and pay dearly because of the statistics that exist. So, go ahead -- convince the insurance companies that these statistics are all wrong, there's no appreciable increase in crime or law-breaking because of illegals, and do us all a big favor.
Oh so not true. Try paying car insurance in Boston or New York. These cities are not in border states.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 15,865,120 times
Reputation: 3677
Uh, I used to live near Boston in very Southern NH (Nashua) and the rates in the Border region of TX are a lot higher.

But you're missing the point, anyway. Yes, insurance rates are high in major metro areas. On the Border, they're high because of Border crime and the problem with auto theft, not because there's a big city in the area. Our friend Lukeache says illegal immigrants don't raise crime rates appreciably. If that's the case, the insurance companies are lying and charging us more just because. When I notified my auto insurance agent that I was moving from Brownsville to Abilene, my premium immediately dropped $25 per month.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 10:23 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,894,928 times
Reputation: 3651
None of this is to argue that illegal immigration doesn't have costs, especially in border communities and states with large public benefits. In the post-9/11 environment, knowing who's in the country is more important than ever. That's an argument for better regulating cross-border labor flows, not ending them.

Allow me, Luke, to highlight this part of the article. You don't live in a border state, so you are permitted a certain degree of ignorance. In Austin, the county had to create a 'health district' and the tax to go with it to fund the high rate of indigent and/or undocumented workers using the hospitals. Who pays the tax? We do. If you don't think that illegal immigration is a problem, I certainly hope that you are fighting at some level to decriminalize illegal immigration....a country that ignores its laws is not one that prospers.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 15,865,120 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
This post reinforces my contention that much of the anti illegal movement is racially based. I have a hunch that if 12 million young French women poured over the border illegally we would not her so much squacking.
Hey, I'd turn the broads in. But France is an ocean, a channel, and a country or two away. Mexicans take advantage of the proximity and, yes, their country is the pits. But, if you recall, when the French people were suffering at the hands of a corrupt government, they had a revolution! They CHANGED things and didn't run away by the millions and expect another country to employ and care for them.

So, the Mexicans need to stay in their own country and change things. If we had a corrupt and oppressive government and were mired in poverty, would we be running en masse into Canada and demanding work and government benefits? Or would we fight for change?
 
Old 01-02-2008, 11:09 PM
 
138 posts, read 471,827 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
But, if you recall, when the French people were suffering at the hands of a corrupt government, they had a revolution! They CHANGED things and didn't run away by the millions and expect another country to employ and care for them.

So, the Mexicans need to stay in their own country and change things. If we had a corrupt and oppressive government and were mired in poverty, would we be running en masse into Canada and demanding work and government benefits? Or would we fight for change?
You are forgetting that all of our ancestors did run en masse from other places and did not stay in their countries to change things, unless you are Native American of course. Look, this is a great country with a lot of opportunity for a lot of people. That's why people come. If you and your family were stuck in what you deemed a miserable situation, would you not do everything in your power to change that? I know that I would, even if that meant breaking the law.

I have noticed that a lot of people have focused on the fact that undocumented immigrants have broken the law when coming into the country. To many that makes it an open and shut case. But those laws that are being broken are very different depending on where you are coming from. I believe they are extremely unfair. They give priority to immigrants from Western Europe over Eastern Europe, and to Europe in general over the Americas which are our neighbors. Let's take the case of Cuba and Haiti for example. Cubans are accepted into the country much more easilly while Haitians are turned away because of Cold War era politics. When the Germans and Irish first started coming into the country in large numbers, there were no national immigration laws. Each state could control immigration if they wanted to and most did not. So the fact that many people's ancestors came into the country "the right way" had more to do with what was happening at that historical moment than with a conscious decision. What would have all those Irish escaping the potato famine or the Eastern European Jews escaping the programs have done instead, if the laws were different at the time?

I think we also forget that many believed the Irish and Italians and Eastern Europeans (because they are Catholic and Jewish and of foreign cultures) could never be assimilated into the American way of life. Anti-immigrant articles in newspapers in the early 1900s read very much like the ones we have today. And yes, Latinos are assimilating. In the second generation they are mostly English dominant. In the third they have mostly forgotten Spanish (which isn't necessarilly a good thing in our increasingly globalized world). My point is that if you just focus on the recent immigrants it is easy to feel that they will never adapt. It usually takes a generation. You would have felt the same way living in New York's Lower East Side or many of the other Northeastern and Midwestern cities at the turn of the 20th century.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,041,880 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by bklynchapin View Post
You are forgetting that all of our ancestors did run en masse from other places and did not stay in their countries to change things, unless you are Native American of course. Look, this is a great country with a lot of opportunity for a lot of people. That's why people come. If you and your family were stuck in what you deemed a miserable situation, would you not do everything in your power to change that? I know that I would, even if that meant breaking the law.
What I would do is obtain citizenship legally. I would wait as long as it took, and pay what I needed to pay because I would know in the long run that my children and many generations to come would benefit from my sacrifice. After I did this I would view illegals as a slap in the face, with them thinking they can just cut in front of everyone and disregard policy. And I certainly would not snub my nose at another country's laws, and then have the nerve to demand rights I didn't have once I was there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bklynchapin
I have noticed that a lot of people have focused on the fact that undocumented immigrants have broken the law when coming into the country. To many that makes it an open and shut case. But those laws that are being broken are very different depending on where you are coming from. I believe they are extremely unfair.
Because the law is the law, it's not different because of where you come from, or whether or not you think it's unfair, it's still the law. Work to change it, but don't ignore it or pick and choose which ones you need to follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bklynchapin
Anti-immigrant articles in newspapers in the early 1900s read very much like the ones we have today.
To make sure this is clear, no matter what some people on here choose to believe, no one here is anti-immigrant, we are anti-illegal immigrant, please understand the difference.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 11:31 PM
 
138 posts, read 471,827 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by chatter crac View Post
NO IMPACT ON YOUR LIFE? Are you ignorant, uneducated, and prejudiced? Do you live in Texas or Maine? Compare the murder, rape, theft, and auto-theft percentages per 1,000 people in states bordering Mexico and ones not bordering Mexico. Then tell me if they are or are not making an impact on our country.
Ok, but even if those rates are higher closer to Mexico, how do you know it is because of "illegals" as opposed to "legals"? Or is it just people who have come from Mexico that you have a problem with?
 
Old 01-02-2008, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
1,693 posts, read 3,105,847 times
Reputation: 1233
visual footage of latin areas does not lie. That said, if they are legal and paying taxes I say welcome and enjoy your stay. Let's all remember that it is about stopping illegals not stopping diversity. All the illegal immigrants need to be put on the books immediately. After that we can use the extra money to clean the place up.
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