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Old 11-16-2014, 04:57 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,464,849 times
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Packard, Nice false spin. GOP does well at state or less races,not POTUS. POTUS brings out diversity in voting, 1 in 5 elgible voters will vote November 2016 who failed to in either Nov 2014 or Nov 2010.

 
Old 11-16-2014, 05:02 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,464,849 times
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Old Glory, Thumb noses-no, but it need not be an all or nothing solution. There is a world of difference between a long-term pathway to citizenship w/fines, community service, examination of how an individual has lived in terms of obeying all other laws and unconditional amnesty. The latter is not on the table, nor should it be. The former is a realistic solution. If the GOP is too dumb to offer a compromise, Latino citizens will no doubt repeat 2012, and elect the Democrat.

The Red Wall is too pithy to elect a POTUS; it needs swing states, which happen to have substantial Latino voting blocks. The RW is 80 ECs shy of the Blue Wall, with the newest BW POTUS members, Va & NM (demographics drove those).

America will continue changing, with or w/o GOP consent.
 
Old 11-16-2014, 05:18 PM
 
11,569 posts, read 5,538,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Old Glory, Thumb noses-no, but it need not be an all or nothing solution. There is a world of difference between a long-term pathway to citizenship w/fines, community service, examination of how an individual has lived in terms of obeying all other laws and unconditional amnesty. The latter is not on the table, nor should it be. The former is a realistic solution. If the GOP is too dumb to offer a compromise, Latino citizens will no doubt repeat 2012, and elect the Democrat.

The Red Wall is too pithy to elect a POTUS; it needs swing states, which happen to have substantial Latino voting blocks. The RW is 80 ECs shy of the Blue Wall, with the newest BW POTUS members, Va & NM (demographics drove those).

America will continue changing, with or w/o GOP consent.

And how is giving some sort of pathway to citizenship with fines fair to the millions who came here legally?

BTW, perhaps you should take a look at the so-called "immigration reform" bill that was passed by the senate. It has such "gems" in it like --- an illegal can have up to 3 DUIs and still get amnesty. It gives employers an incentive to hire a newly amnestied illegal over an American citizen by telling employers that if they hire an American, they have to give them Obamacare while newly amnestied illegals get none. This bill would also amnesty illegals who have committed misdemeanors plus those who engaged in ID theft. Also, E-verify won't be the law of the land for another 5 years. It's things like this that have kept this nightmare of a bill from becoming law.

Why are you so fixated on the Hispanic vote? And why do you feel that politicians --- on either side of the aisle --- should be pandering to a group by promising to reward lawbreakers?
 
Old 11-16-2014, 05:25 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,464,849 times
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A pathway is quite similar to what Reagan happily signed in 1986, as he understood mass deportation isn't going to happen.

As for the Hispanic vote, my fixation is on the math. They are America's fastest growing demographic group, and Latino citizens are > a decade younger (median) than white Americans. That means they will continue growing in power even w/o new citizens, simply due to the present composition of the nation. White Americans are having fewer kids than decades past, Latino families are not sharing in that "shrinking" characteristic.


I have yet to see a GOP path to 270 in which they can avoid needing W's mid 40s Latino share-at minimum. Part of the problem is the Southern strategy alienated the more populated parts of the nation. That exponentially increases the importance of the Latino vote. Dems have dozens of ways to 270 with ease; GOP has just a few.

Why do you NOT want that voting block?
 
Old 11-16-2014, 05:43 PM
 
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Yes, Reagan agreed to that disastrous amnesty. However, dems promised him that it would be a one-time thing (we have since had several stealth amnesties), that the borders would be secured (that never happened) and that illegals will never be able to hold a job (We currently have 8 million no-match SSNs in the work force.).

You've been told this many, many times---no one is advocating for "mass deportation". Instead, make it tough for illegals to live here and they will leave on their own accord. Make E-verify the law of the land and tweak it so that it picks up things like illegals who name their anchor baby after themselves and then use said child's SSN. Once it is tweaked, run everybody in the work force through it and weed out those no-match SSNs. Once and for all, pass a law that makes it illegal for someone to use another person's SSN even though they don't use the rightful owner's name. Do something about the whole anchor baby/birth tourism fiasco, etc. Would you stay someplace if you couldn't find work or tap into any welfare programs?

BTW, there is no race called "Hispanic". Some Hispanics are white, others are black and many are Mestizo. Besides, who cares if the demographic is growing? It is only growing due to illegal immigration.

And again, why should any politician on either side of the aisle pander to a group by promising to reward lawbreakers?
 
Old 11-16-2014, 05:47 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,464,849 times
Reputation: 7274
Seeking votes is not pandering. All pols do it, all groups seek something. Many Repubs have run on lower taxes for upper bracket folks (Reagan lowered the max, as did other pols)-i.e. they pandered to a single subset of the population's wishes. A popular vote process guarantees that will occur.

So why brand one groups desires when other groups have also played this "I can vote, tradeoff game"?
 
Old 11-16-2014, 06:08 PM
 
11,569 posts, read 5,538,125 times
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Yes, seeking votes based on promising to reward lawbreakers from a certain ethnic group is indeed pandering. Lowering taxes does not promote lawbreaking.

As I've said to you time and time again, I'm half-Hispanic and find it insulting to be pandered to with promises of rewarding Hispanic lawbreakers with amnesty.

Should politicians, for example, pander to Irish-Americans with promises of amnesty for illegal Irish? After all, 40 million Americans (my husband and daughter included) have some Irish blood.

Why do you find it acceptable to pander to any group with the promise of rewarding lawbreakers in that group?
 
Old 11-16-2014, 06:28 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,464,849 times
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I neither find it acceptable nor deplorable. I find it interesting given the few options the GOP has left itself with for the WH, that they are even in this position to begin with. I'm a pragmatist, since I do not like long-term any Dem nominated for POTUS wins, I am in favor of Comprehensive Immigration reform, as I first do not expect 11 million deported or self-deported per Mittens, and two, accepting that fact, makes reform the pragmatic compromise and a vehicle to enact e-verify short-term, amongst other measures.
 
Old 11-16-2014, 06:34 PM
 
11,569 posts, read 5,538,125 times
Reputation: 9901
So...if you were in a country illegally and couldn't get a job or access any freebies, you wouldn't leave and instead would demand amnesty?

Sorry, neither party should pander to a group with promises of rewarding lawbreakers. There is no excuse for doing so. It is indeed deplorable.

Of course not all of the millions of illegals would self-deport but most would if life became inhospitable for them here.

Again, how is giving amnesty to illegal aliens fair to those who came here legally? Are you aware that illegal immigration makes legal immigrants very angry? In fact, amnestying illegals is a slap in the face to those who obeyed our immigration laws.
 
Old 11-16-2014, 06:46 PM
 
31,777 posts, read 14,639,851 times
Reputation: 8474
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Old Glory, Thumb noses-no, but it need not be an all or nothing solution. There is a world of difference between a long-term pathway to citizenship w/fines, community service, examination of how an individual has lived in terms of obeying all other laws and unconditional amnesty. The latter is not on the table, nor should it be. The former is a realistic solution. If the GOP is too dumb to offer a compromise, Latino citizens will no doubt repeat 2012, and elect the Democrat.

The Red Wall is too pithy to elect a POTUS; it needs swing states, which happen to have substantial Latino voting blocks. The RW is 80 ECs shy of the Blue Wall, with the newest BW POTUS members, Va & NM (demographics drove those).

America will continue changing, with or w/o GOP consent.
Other than deportation as our laws state yes it is thumbing their noses at our immigration laws to pander to a certain demographic. That isn't what our country or politicians are supposed to be about. We don't need them here! We need the jobs they are holding and they are a net burden to our society. Fines, learning English, etc. is just all smoke and mirrors. Our government can't even seem to keep track of visa over stayers much less monitoring millions of newly legalized foreigners for compliance. What about those who are guilty of felony ID theft? Is that just all supposed to be forgiven? What is realistic is to remove all the incentives for them to remain here and they will self-deport. Amnesty is no compromise for the American people.

Again, explain to me why Latinos think their illegal amigos should be above our immigration laws and rewarded for breaking them. No demographic group in this country is special nor should they be treated that way. Latinos are still going to be majority Democrats anyway due to the other policies of that party. Claiming that many of them will jump over to the GOP and vote for them if they cave into their demands is just a tactic that those who are pushing amnesty think we can be fooled by. We weren't born yesterday and besides neither party should be blackmailed for votes by a special interest group that is self-serving rather than putting the best interests of their fellow citizens and this country first.

I have no problem with this country changing lawfully and naturally but is neither when it occurs via illegal immigration. What country in their right mind would embrace change that occurs in that manner?
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