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Old 11-16-2014, 08:55 PM
19,617 posts, read 7,970,250 times
Reputation: 6504


Originally Posted by juneaubound View Post
Even if the country was unified behind this issue, Obama should not be doing this. We have three branches of government for a reason. The fact that this president is trying to work around a system that was developed at the founding of this country and that was specifically developed so one one person would have too much power, is a scary thing to me.

There are endless examples over history and throughout the world of what happens when one person has too much power. There are endless examples over recent history in this country of how easy it becomes for government to justify unconstitutional actions - for the greater good, to keep us safe, to gather terrorist information.

I am not saying this because we're talking about Obama. Unchecked power - the will go "go it alone" - the will to take unilateral action despite the American people being against it - scares the crap out of me. I am a student of history. Everyone should be a student of history. And anyone that says "that can't happen in the United States of America" is fooling themselves.

10 years ago did you ever think that the feds would be patting down your five year old little girl at the airport? 10 years ago did you ever think that the feds would be using communications organizations (Verizon to get your cell phone records), social media organizations (Facebook to get your pages and passwords), business organizations (Target to get your credit card info and Yahoo to get your email passwords) to learn everything about you aside from how often you go to the bathroom? 10 years ago did you ever think that the feds would use one of their own agences against activist organizations with which they disagree? Or that they would use drones to listen in on your cell phone conversations? Or that the media would emotionally invest so much in a political candidate that they would not do their job, which is ultimately to act as watchdogs on behalf of the American people?

You're right. It is a divisive issue. The Amercan people are against amnesty. Obama has no authority to go it alone. He has not even TRIED to make a case to the American people that is believable and pursuasive (because there IS no case to be made - there is no compelling reason why this should happen and so pols like the one above from Florida appeal to compassion instead of need and logic).

And going it alone and before a new Congress is even voted in sends a clear message to the newbies on the hill that this president has no intention of trying to work with them. He has screwed THAT pooch before it even got off the ground.
I'm not going to argue anything you've said because I agree with you.

Old 11-16-2014, 10:42 PM
Location: Dallas
2,084 posts, read 2,449,715 times
Reputation: 3400
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Honestly, as a democrat, I hope obama doesn't do this. The country is so divided over this that a single person should not decide the outcome....president or not.

I couldn't agree more
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:24 AM
31,634 posts, read 14,599,205 times
Reputation: 8429
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
I am debating the wisdom given the mathematical certain of losing the battle, OldGlory. W/O POTUS, the GOP cannot move the needle on this issue. They can block stuff for 2 years while they hold the Senate, but they cannot pass stuff not to the liking of the POTUS. That means not only will 11 million be here, but the numbers will continue to grow, and w/o being allowed to legally work here, they undermine wages far more, as that means employers can hold them hostage and that means legal residents are devalued.

I'd like to see both parties capable of taking the Oath of Office, and truly moving the needle. We just have 1.

Recognize how ineffective that makes the GOP. I do not care whose title is Majority Leader if he/she can NOT do anything substantive and see it become law!
Mathematics or not you are suggesting that the GOP cave into amnesty to remain a viable party. Again, that is not the right thing for our country and pandering to a demographic group whose demands are in direct conflict with our laws is so wrong on so many levels. Continuing to buck amnesty will actually deter illegal immigration not encourage it. The opposite is what will encourage more.

Illegal aliens will undermine wages even if allowed to legally work here because they still will always work for less and will require government subsidies to survive (our taxes). As I have often said, Americans need the jobs they are holding. Shouldn't we be concerned about the American worker?

Politicians have taken the oath of office to uphold our laws not twist them and not to ignore the enforcement of them. As I said, I would rather the GOP go down in flames (but they won't) rather than turn into anti-American traitors. We already have laws on the books. We should be enforcing them.

It's been nice chatting with you but you still haven't answered any of the pertinent questions I have posed to you so it makes no sense to continue this discussion with you.
Old 11-17-2014, 06:56 AM
20,611 posts, read 12,296,542 times
Reputation: 5895
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Yes, bob avoids the hard questions, Oldglory. He has never answered why it is okay for politicians to pander to lawbreakers.

Nor has explained why politicians aren't pandering to Irish Americans by promising amnesty for the illegal Irish. After all, 40 million Americans can trace some (or all) of their ancestry back to Ireland.
Like me. I'm of Irish family and def want illegal aliens from Ireland tossed out. Period.
Old 11-17-2014, 07:23 AM
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,922,493 times
Reputation: 27520
I think he's going to go the refugee path. That let's them stay here and get welfare benefits.
He can't grant amnesty but he can grant refugee status.
Old 11-17-2014, 07:28 AM
31,634 posts, read 14,599,205 times
Reputation: 8429
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I think he's going to go the refugee path. That let's them stay here and get welfare benefits.
He can't grant amnesty but he can grant refugee status.
Except that 4.5 million illegal aliens are not refugees. Isn't there a process in place whereby when someone claims that status that it has to be proven that they actually are?
Old 11-17-2014, 09:14 AM
23,939 posts, read 17,598,784 times
Reputation: 12815
and to think - 8 short years ago Obama was saying some of the very same things the anti-amnesty crowd has been saying all along..

“The number of immigrants added to the labor force every year is of a magnitude not seen in this country for over a century,” Obama noted. “If this huge influx of mostly low-skill workers provides some benefits to the economy as a whole—especially by keeping our workforce young, in contrast to an increasingly geriatric Europe and Japan—it also threatens to depress further the wages of blue-collar Americans and put strains on an already overburdened safety net.”
Old 11-17-2014, 10:35 AM
48,519 posts, read 81,076,846 times
Reputation: 17978
But then he also campaigned against Hillary in debates that healthcare insurance should not be mandated.His reasoning was that it would be impossible to enforce. But then he also said repeatedly that if you liked your insurance you could keep it; so much for all that.
Old 11-17-2014, 11:09 AM
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
29,956 posts, read 34,561,935 times
Reputation: 35960
Obama will coordinate his EO on Illegals to coincide with Ferguson and distract the media / people.

Nothing like a good riot to make people ignore a bigger problem.
Old 11-17-2014, 12:59 PM
62,533 posts, read 27,802,586 times
Reputation: 7889
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
It shouldn't be that way though. American-Latinos are just as obligated to respect our immigration laws and the enforcement of them just like any other American ethnic group in this country. Demanding amnesty for their ethnic group is not the American way.
I'm puzzled as to why they would support an influx of even more low-skilled workers. That'll create much more competition for no/low-skill jobs and depress low-income wages even further. Demanding amnesty for their ethnic group illegals goes against their own best interest.
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