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Old 02-03-2015, 07:26 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,269,291 times
Reputation: 5901

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieinDallas View Post
I've always found the argument that says "illegal aliens are these innocent hard working folks looking to come out of the shadows, and do the work Americans won't do" to be complete baloney!

There are tons of Americans working back of house in restaurants, and I don't believe the argument from employers whining about not being able to find them for one second. I think they specifically seek out illegal aliens for the sole purpose of exploiting them.

Of course, I also don't believe that it ends with restaurants either. I think the farmers who make very similar statements about not being able to find American workers, are full of lies too. With the massive government subsidies most farmers receive, they should be forced to have Americans on staff. I watched a lousy Vice documentary showing a farmer whining about his illegal help being deported, and didn't feel one ounce of sympathy for him.

It's crazy how food services from beginning to end are being overrun with illegal workers.
It may not be what you wanna hear, but employers also notice that they seem to have a much better 'work ethic'. Just in my own experience owning several rentals, I use day labor all the time (usually not hard to find near the local Home Depot). And whenever I hire the 'Mexican' guys, they're usually there on time, work hard, and what's more, I don't have to go back and 'fix' the work.

On the other hand, the "anglo" guys are often only good for a few hours, maybe a couple days at best, but then they suddenly disappear (especially if it's right after getting paid and they decide to go on a 'bender')!

Same goes for the rentals, where I have several long-term 'Hispanic' tenants, who always pay the rent on time, take care of their families, and often work several jobs! While unfortunately most of my "problem tenants" tend to be of the low end, dead-beat "redneck" and "anglo" persuasion.

Of course it's easy to forget the POV of the employer, when so many folks think just an accident of birth should make them "entitled".
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:30 AM
 
25,455 posts, read 23,273,196 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
It may not be what you wanna hear, but employers also notice that they seem to have a much better 'work ethic'. Just in my own experience owning several rentals, I use day labor all the time (usually not hard to find near the local Home Depot). And whenever I hire the 'Mexican' guys, they're usually there on time, work hard, and what's more, I don't have to go back and 'fix' the work.

On the other hand, the "anglo" guys are often only good for a few hours, maybe a couple days at best, but then they suddenly disappear (especially if it's right after getting paid and they decide to go on a 'bender')!

Same goes for the rentals, where I have several long-term 'Hispanic' tenants, who always pay the rent on time, take care of their families, and often work several jobs! While unfortunately most of my "problem tenants" tend to be of the low end, dead-beat "anglo" persuasion.

Of course it's easy to forget the POV of the employer, when so many folks think just an accident of birth already makes them "entitled".
yeah, they do have a great work ethic, no one is saying they don't....I'm really not going to go into this again....if you don't get it, you never will.....
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,269,291 times
Reputation: 5901
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
yeah, they do have a great work ethic, no one is saying they don't....I'm really not going to go into this again....if you don't get it, you never will.....
And if folks can't see it from the POV of the farm, restaurant, and business owner, then they won't get the job either… and probably never will.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:17 AM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
It may not be what you wanna hear, but employers also notice that they seem to have a much better 'work ethic'. Just in my own experience owning several rentals, I use day labor all the time (usually not hard to find near the local Home Depot). And whenever I hire the 'Mexican' guys, they're usually there on time, work hard, and what's more, I don't have to go back and 'fix' the work.

On the other hand, the "anglo" guys are often only good for a few hours, maybe a couple days at best, but then they suddenly disappear (especially if it's right after getting paid and they decide to go on a 'bender')!

Same goes for the rentals, where I have several long-term 'Hispanic' tenants, who always pay the rent on time, take care of their families, and often work several jobs! While unfortunately most of my "problem tenants" tend to be of the low end, dead-beat "redneck" and "anglo" persuasion.

Of course it's easy to forget the POV of the employer, when so many folks think just an accident of birth should make them "entitled".
The one you are quoting said illegal aliens not legal Hispanics. An employer has no right to hire them no matter their so-called superior work ethics. If you are trolling Home Depot for day laborers then they are more than likely illegal aliens also. So what you are doing is against the law. Apparently, you think it is ok for employers to make larger profits or cheapskate Joe Homeowner to save a buck off the backs of cheap, illegal labor while they are breaking the law to do so? These greedy employers pass their social costs unto we the taxpayer. Apparently, you're ok with that also? They are stealing jobs from Americans and reducing wages but apparently that's ok also?

I am growing very tired of this claim that non-Hispanics are inferior workers to Hispanic-Mexicans in general. It simply isn't true. Those here illegally are afraid of being deported and their job options are few so that explains why they "appear" to be better workers. I am sick of the references to "rednecked anglos" also. Do you realize how racist that sounds?

Accident of birth? Since when is being born to citizen parents an accident of birth? Being a citizen of any country gives one more rights than foreigners. Why do you have a problem with that? All countries have sovereign borders that protect the citizens of their country and they have immigration laws to do just that.

Last edited by Oldglory; 02-03-2015 at 08:33 AM..
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:03 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,269,291 times
Reputation: 5901
^ We've been down this road before, where on the one hand you object to any 'cultural' references, and then you turn around and proceed to make your very own 'cultural' arguments and defenses.

And it is a "cultural" problem (instead of a 'racial' one) that nobody wants to talk about, that we basically have a huge, largely white (aka 'anglo') underclass part of the population, with a unique 'culture' of their own, just as surely as 'hispanic' folks do. But unlike most other cultures, they don't wanna be 'identified', so instead they get 'assigned all these unflattering names, like "redneck", "hillbilly", "trailer trash", "cracker", whatever. But if you don't like those names, then tell me one you prefer instead… unless of course you're claiming no such white "sub-culture" exists here (in which case, then who are you defending)?

And that's what much of this fuss about "illegals" is really all about, is the growing competition between this huge underclass white 'sub-culture' (whatever you wanna call 'em), who used to "own" the low end of the labor market in this country. That is until domestic jobs went offshore, manufacturing disappeared, and we became more of a 'service-based' and 'knowledge' economy, requiring more 'edu-macation' and better skills… none of which has ever been among the 'strong points' for this particular underclass 'culture'.

So while the "social safety net" soon came in to save the day for this poor "native" underclass, gradually tons of "immigrants" have rushed in to fill the remaining demand for all the back-breaking, lowest-of-the low jobs, that our largely 'anglo native underclass' used to do… like picking crops, or the most labor-intensive construction work, landscaping and maintenance, and food services jobs with notoriously crummy hours and pay.

Which is to say that even if we suddenly evicted every single "illegal worker" in the country, then who's gonna replace 'em… and why would our 'natives' even wanna fill those jobs, when they can just as easily collect all the welfare benefits they feel "entitled" to (especially when they can claim how 'self-reliant' they still are, and have someone else to blame)?!
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:23 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,137,944 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The one you are quoting said illegal aliens not legal Hispanics. An employer has no right to hire them no matter their so-called superior work ethics. If you are trolling Home Depot for day laborers then they are more than likely illegal aliens also. So what you are doing is against the law. Apparently, you think it is ok for employers to make larger profits or cheapskate Joe Homeowner to save a buck off the backs of cheap, illegal labor while they are breaking the law to do so? These greedy employers pass their social costs unto we the taxpayer. Apparently, you're ok with that also? They are stealing jobs from Americans and reducing wages but apparently that's ok also?

I am growing very tired of this claim that non-Hispanics are inferior workers to Hispanic-Mexicans in general. It simply isn't true. Those here illegally are afraid of being deported and their job options are few so that explains why they "appear" to be better workers. I am sick of the references to "rednecked anglos" also. Do you realize how racist that sounds?

Accident of birth? Since when is being born to citizen parents an accident of birth? Being a citizen of any country gives one more rights than foreigners. Why do you have a problem with that? All countries have sovereign borders that protect the citizens of their country and they have immigration laws to do just that.
Day workers are not covered by the immigration laws. No requirement that you do an I9 or see papers.
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:47 PM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
^ We've been down this road before, where on the one hand you object to any 'cultural' references, and then you turn around and proceed to make your very own 'cultural' arguments and defenses.

And it is a "cultural" problem (instead of a 'racial' one) that nobody wants to talk about, that we basically have a huge, largely white (aka 'anglo') underclass part of the population, with a unique 'culture' of their own, just as surely as 'hispanic' folks do. But unlike most other cultures, they don't wanna be 'identified', so instead they get 'assigned all these unflattering names, like "redneck", "hillbilly", "trailer trash", "cracker", whatever. But if you don't like those names, then tell me one you prefer instead… unless of course you're claiming no such white "sub-culture" exists here (in which case, then who are you defending)?

And that's what much of this fuss about "illegals" is really all about, is the growing competition between this huge underclass white 'sub-culture' (whatever you wanna call 'em), who used to "own" the low end of the labor market in this country. That is until domestic jobs went offshore, manufacturing disappeared, and we became more of a 'service-based' and 'knowledge' economy, requiring more 'edu-macation' and better skills… none of which has ever been among the 'strong points' for this particular underclass 'culture'.

So while the "social safety net" soon came in to save the day for this poor "native" underclass, gradually tons of "immigrants" have rushed in to fill the remaining demand for all the back-breaking, lowest-of-the low jobs, that our largely 'anglo native underclass' used to do… like picking crops, or the most labor-intensive construction work, landscaping and maintenance, and food services jobs with notoriously crummy hours and pay.

Which is to say that even if we suddenly evicted every single "illegal worker" in the country, then who's gonna replace 'em… and why would our 'natives' even wanna fill those jobs, when they can just as easily collect all the welfare benefits they feel "entitled" to (especially when they can claim how 'self-reliant' they still are, and have someone else to blame)?!
How about just calling them white Americans? You seriously think you have to use derogatory names like rednecks, crackers, etc. to identify them? Many of them aren't even anglos. For example those from German, Italian, French, etc. ancestry are not anglos.

The objection to illegal immigration is that it is costing many Americans of different backgrounds/races/ethnic groups their jobs and increasing their taxes. The main objection is that it is against the law or doesn't that count? With outsourcing there are fewer jobs remaining for our blue-collared American workforce. The entry level jobs for our American youth are being taken over by illegal aliens also. Since when haven't Americans always done backbreaking work like construction, landscaping, maintenance and food service jobs? Who do you think did them before the arrival of cheap, illegal labor? As for crop picking there are unlimited visas for "legal" foreign workers. So you were saying?

Who's going to replace illegal aliens? Those who held those jobs before and future working Americans, that's who! Has it ever occurred to you that they are collecting unemployment or welfare because illegal aliens have flooded the job market? Why is it you think the illegal aliens are the good guys but the Americans who lost their jobs to them or had their wages reduced are the bad guys? Why do you want the employers to get richer off of illegal aliens while they are also breaking the law to do so? Aren't you a citizen of this country?

I'm sorry but I just can't stomach your posts anymore. Bye.
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Old 02-03-2015, 03:42 PM
 
11,488 posts, read 5,507,878 times
Reputation: 9865
It's nauseating to hear about people using illegal alien labor.

The thing is by hiring them to work on your property, they aren't licensed, bonded and insured. If they get injured while working on your property, your homeowner's insurance won't cover it. So be prepared to pay out of your own pocket for their injuries. If you refuse to do so, there are plenty of groups like La Raza, LULAC, MALDEF, Sin Fronteras, etc. who will gladly do pro bono work for the illegal. You can also bet that they will take you to the cleaners. See---that cheap labor isn't so cheap after all.

My brother has a friend who is a legal immigrant from Europe. His friend owns his own construction company. One day a homeowner, who was someone the friend had done work for before, ask him to put in a bid for a job they wanted done. He put in his bid and never heard from them again. So...one day he drove by the house and saw a bunch of illegals doing the work. It turns out that the friend was underbid by 10 thousand dollars. We all know what will come next---the work will be so shoddy that the homeowners will have to hire someone else to fix it. Most likely, they will go back to my brother's friend. In the end, the job will cost them so much more.

Illegals may work faster but they don't work smarter. It's beyond foolish to pick them up and take them into your home. Not only will they lie to you about having the necessary skills but you don't know them. The same people who won't pick up a hitchhiker have no problems picking up an illegal. Far too many people who pick up illegal alien day laborers have been robbed--or worse---been killed.

Last edited by BOS2IAD; 02-03-2015 at 04:04 PM..
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Old 02-03-2015, 03:52 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
^ We've been down this road before, where on the one hand you object to any 'cultural' references, and then you turn around and proceed to make your very own 'cultural' arguments and defenses.

And it is a "cultural" problem (instead of a 'racial' one) that nobody wants to talk about, that we basically have a huge, largely white (aka 'anglo') underclass part of the population, with a unique 'culture' of their own, just as surely as 'hispanic' folks do. But unlike most other cultures, they don't wanna be 'identified', so instead they get 'assigned all these unflattering names, like "redneck", "hillbilly", "trailer trash", "cracker", whatever. But if you don't like those names, then tell me one you prefer instead… unless of course you're claiming no such white "sub-culture" exists here (in which case, then who are you defending)?

And that's what much of this fuss about "illegals" is really all about, is the growing competition between this huge underclass white 'sub-culture' (whatever you wanna call 'em), who used to "own" the low end of the labor market in this country. That is until domestic jobs went offshore, manufacturing disappeared, and we became more of a 'service-based' and 'knowledge' economy, requiring more 'edu-macation' and better skills… none of which has ever been among the 'strong points' for this particular underclass 'culture'.

So while the "social safety net" soon came in to save the day for this poor "native" underclass, gradually tons of "immigrants" have rushed in to fill the remaining demand for all the back-breaking, lowest-of-the low jobs, that our largely 'anglo native underclass' used to do… like picking crops, or the most labor-intensive construction work, landscaping and maintenance, and food services jobs with notoriously crummy hours and pay.

Which is to say that even if we suddenly evicted every single "illegal worker" in the country, then who's gonna replace 'em… and why would our 'natives' even wanna fill those jobs, when they can just as easily collect all the welfare benefits they feel "entitled" to (especially when they can claim how 'self-reliant' they still are, and have someone else to blame)?!
Stop it, please.

Back in the day many of those "crap" jobs paid half way Ok money, not in 2015 with ILLEGAL aliens undercutting Americans. So; when your kind hire "anglo white" people who ain't any good, you get what you pay for. ILLEGAL aliens don't dare speak up when being cheated. Even Chicanos with a work ethic WON'T stand for being undercut by Hispanic or any other kind of illegal alien, why should they??

Too; it def would be just fine with me to see people who "knowlingly" hire or rent to illegal aliens arrested, convicted, sent to prison and have their property taken away.
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Old 02-03-2015, 03:59 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,137,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Stop it, please.

Back in the day many of those "crap" jobs paid half way Ok money, not in 2015 with ILLEGAL aliens undercutting Americans. So; when your kind hire "anglo white" people who ain't any good, you get what you pay for. ILLEGAL aliens don't dare speak up when being cheated. Even Chicanos with a work ethic WON'T stand for being undercut by Hispanic or any other kind of illegal alien, why should they??

Too; it def would be just fine with me to see people who "knowlingly" hire or rent to illegal aliens arrested, convicted, sent to prison and have their property taken away.
There is a pretty good CA study of day workers that found they are paid about $11 an hour. The real problem the day worker has is that they cannot get more than about 23 hours work a week so it is a meager living...but paid well above minimum wage.

It is perfectly legal to hire day workers for residential tasks or as a fill in for a contractor crew member.

If you wish to send people to jail for renting to illegals etc all you got to do is get a law passed. Don't hold your breath though.
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