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Unread 01-22-2012, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,120 posts, read 1,419,614 times
Reputation: 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
You don't know any Guatemalans or Salvadorians? There are a lot of them in most big cities. Ask. For me their statements are enough for me. Or see the film El Norte. You have a real complex. Any time any one says anything about Mexico you lose it. Don't waste anymore of my time with that BS.
YOu alluded to working from the inside earlier...

Is YOur statement true about agents offering money so that a detainee would sign a Voluntary Departure order?...

Just wanting to find out a little more detail...
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Unread 01-22-2012, 11:50 PM
 
387 posts, read 96,822 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
You don't know any Guatemalans or Salvadorians? There are a lot of them in most big cities. Ask. For me their statements are enough for me. Or see the film El Norte. You have a real complex. Any time any one says anything about Mexico you lose it. Don't waste anymore of my time with that BS.
Sorry but the only border around here more porous than the US one is the southern border of Mexico.

Our border patrol generally does not take bribes. Theirs does. Guess what happens.

Sheesh.
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Unread 01-22-2012, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,120 posts, read 1,419,614 times
Reputation: 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Sorry but the only border around here more porous than the US one is the southern border of Mexico.

Our border patrol generally does not take bribes. Theirs does. Guess what happens...
And some of ours apparently give bribes to sign VD orders...
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Unread 01-23-2012, 07:20 AM
 
6,787 posts, read 1,813,190 times
Reputation: 1391
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
We're going to collectively come up with some better analogies...

That, and being able to tell a truth that can at least be backed up with a little data...
A cockroach is a tiny bug that can get into almost anything. People don't like them but they're a tough critter. So saying that cockroaches can be stopped IS saying a lot.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Steeler Nation
4,214 posts, read 888,879 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanPabloMagno1 View Post
A common theme throughout these posts seems to be that the American people no longer feel represented by their government. I wish I could get the point across that the people of Mexico are in the same boat.
I am not asking anybody to "like" Mexicans, nor do I approve of the illegal presence of Mexicans in your country. But, considering the currently catastrophic economic situation in the US, I can't believe that your situation would be much improved by eliminating your undocumented residents.
We have to be careful what we wish for. You want Mexicans to go home, and I want Mexicans to STAY home. However, Mexico, too, is on the dangerous edge of being a failed state. If we become North America's equivalent of Somalia, no mere fence along the border is going to solve the problems of either nation.
Somebody posting here seems to be under the impression that the Mexican military has some intention of invading the US. Forget it. The militarization of Mexico has nothing to do with any imperialistic fantasies of gaining power or territory in any other nation. I live in Ciudad Juarez, under military occupation, and I assure you that the military presence is here to bring some semblance of order to Juarez; certainly not to invade El Paso.
Modern warfare and military action has become so complex that it might be seen as obsolete. The Mexican soldiers are screaming the same question that has been screamed by American soldiers since the Korean war: Will somebody please tell me who the hell the enemy is?
How can you take military action against an enemy that has no clear identity, no specific location, and who is inclined to change sides without notice?
If you run across isolated, freak incidents that give the appearance of a Mexican military presence in the US, I assure you it is a freak incident that has nothing to do with any Mexican animosity against the US. As you well know, this is a border that can be walked across or waded across or driven across without much difficulty.
I came to these forums with no interest in winning any debate. I was hoping that better-educated Americans might have some good ideas on how to deal with the real culprits of illegal immigration: The EMPLOYERS. And, probably indicating the triumph of hope over reason, I thought some of you might have some ideas on how you might make Mexico more livable for Mexicans. This would necessitate your learning something about the country that everybody seems to hate unless they're on vacation.
So far, all I've heard and read is pure knee-jerk, reactionary, ethnocentric complaining and raving. I'm the one living in the country that has notoriety for its ignorance, but you folks aren't showing me much. You condone the employment of people you've taken a notion to hate; you don't bat an eye when your government assists your major corporate entities in sending your jobs to other countries; you entertain grim fantasies of a military invasion from an impoverished country whose government is becoming irrelevant, and, your best solution is to attack Mexicans who have unstable jobs as janitors and roofers and, then, in the Stalinist tradition, you want to build a fence. (You might want to consult with East Germans or the Chinese regarding the value of "Great Walls.") These are the best ideas that the educated people of the world's most powerful nation can offer? Small wonder that your financial institutions and major corporations are failing. (have failed)
Well, I enjoy a good conversation, and I don't expect rigorous scholarship from all participants. but this is getting kinda goofy.
Among those who participate on these forums, is there anybody who can substantiate opinions and reactions with thought, logic, and a bit of knowledge? If the entire purpose of this forum is for people to vent their rage at Mexicans, whether or not they can distinguish a Mexican from a Spaniard, why not call the forum what it really is? This is not a "discussion" about illegal immigration. This is just a place where disgruntled Americans with time on their hands can attack and insult people they know nothing about.
"Where's your fence?" Your fence is around your minds, and I hope it can someday be penetrated by thought, reason, and knowledge.
Perhaps if we end the war on drugs and have some semblance of controlled legalization, this may go a long way to help the problem from this side. As far as your side of the border, I really don't know since I am not well enough versed in Mexican politics and laws to make a statement, but if you look to controlling the corruption in your own government, it may go a long way in helping your situation in creating jobs and keeping your people at home.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,570 posts, read 1,834,811 times
Reputation: 2280
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanPabloMagno1 View Post
A common theme throughout these posts seems to be that the American people no longer feel represented by their government. I wish I could get the point across that the people of Mexico are in the same boat.
I am not asking anybody to "like" Mexicans, nor do I approve of the illegal presence of Mexicans in your country. But, considering the currently catastrophic economic situation in the US, I can't believe that your situation would be much improved by eliminating your undocumented residents.
We have to be careful what we wish for. You want Mexicans to go home, and I want Mexicans to STAY home. However, Mexico, too, is on the dangerous edge of being a failed state. If we become North America's equivalent of Somalia, no mere fence along the border is going to solve the problems of either nation.
Somebody posting here seems to be under the impression that the Mexican military has some intention of invading the US. Forget it. The militarization of Mexico has nothing to do with any imperialistic fantasies of gaining power or territory in any other nation. I live in Ciudad Juarez, under military occupation, and I assure you that the military presence is here to bring some semblance of order to Juarez; certainly not to invade El Paso.
Modern warfare and military action has become so complex that it might be seen as obsolete. The Mexican soldiers are screaming the same question that has been screamed by American soldiers since the Korean war: Will somebody please tell me who the hell the enemy is?
How can you take military action against an enemy that has no clear identity, no specific location, and who is inclined to change sides without notice?
If you run across isolated, freak incidents that give the appearance of a Mexican military presence in the US, I assure you it is a freak incident that has nothing to do with any Mexican animosity against the US. As you well know, this is a border that can be walked across or waded across or driven across without much difficulty.
I came to these forums with no interest in winning any debate. I was hoping that better-educated Americans might have some good ideas on how to deal with the real culprits of illegal immigration: The EMPLOYERS. And, probably indicating the triumph of hope over reason, I thought some of you might have some ideas on how you might make Mexico more livable for Mexicans. This would necessitate your learning something about the country that everybody seems to hate unless they're on vacation.
So far, all I've heard and read is pure knee-jerk, reactionary, ethnocentric complaining and raving. I'm the one living in the country that has notoriety for its ignorance, but you folks aren't showing me much. You condone the employment of people you've taken a notion to hate; you don't bat an eye when your government assists your major corporate entities in sending your jobs to other countries; you entertain grim fantasies of a military invasion from an impoverished country whose government is becoming irrelevant, and, your best solution is to attack Mexicans who have unstable jobs as janitors and roofers and, then, in the Stalinist tradition, you want to build a fence. (You might want to consult with East Germans or the Chinese regarding the value of "Great Walls.") These are the best ideas that the educated people of the world's most powerful nation can offer? Small wonder that your financial institutions and major corporations are failing. (have failed)
Well, I enjoy a good conversation, and I don't expect rigorous scholarship from all participants. but this is getting kinda goofy.
Among those who participate on these forums, is there anybody who can substantiate opinions and reactions with thought, logic, and a bit of knowledge? If the entire purpose of this forum is for people to vent their rage at Mexicans, whether or not they can distinguish a Mexican from a Spaniard, why not call the forum what it really is? This is not a "discussion" about illegal immigration. This is just a place where disgruntled Americans with time on their hands can attack and insult people they know nothing about.
"Where's your fence?" Your fence is around your minds, and I hope it can someday be penetrated by thought, reason, and knowledge.
Mexicans are crossing over the border, entering the US illegally, is against the law. You seem to think that it's the responsibility of the US to fix Mexico's problems. You have one of the most corrupt governments in existence. Why not do what other countries have done? Stand up and protest. People in other countries are dying because they want to see their dictatorships and corrupt governments fall. Imagine if the 11 million Mexicans who are illegal in the US went back to Mexico to try to do something to save their country? Isn't their beloved country worth dying for? Why doesn't Mexico fix it's own problems, starting with the drug cartels? The cartels that are flooding US soil with drugs?

You seem to think that Americans are angry over the jobs that Mexicans are taking. Maybe you need to pull down the fence around your own mind and see the bigger picture. ALL ILLEGALS have babies to latch on to government assistance. Getting free medical. Getting a free education. Who do you think pays for those freebies? Americans who work and are taxpayers. Are these things that they would get in Mexico? Working off the books and sending US dollars across the border every day, US dollars that are not taxed. Driving without a license and no insurance. Using false documents to vote. People who break the law by entering the country illegally who make demands on government. And then think they are entitled to the same rights as American citizens because they pay sales tax?? If Mexicans want the same rights as Americans, then they, like any other immigrant who wants to become an American citizen, need to enter the country legally and follow the same legal process that other immigrants follow to become an American citizen.

Yes, employers are just as guilty. I read where employers pay for immigrants to be smuggled in. But the US government seems to think that directing manpower to find that 1 terrorist in 3 million is a priority and site inspections at work places to catch employers who hire illegals can wait.

This doesn't just apply to Mexicans it applies to ALL illegals.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 08:16 AM
 
626 posts, read 326,990 times
Reputation: 596
AND? How many times have our forces gone across borders (with no permission) and carried out erroneous activities? I'm not saying it's right, but I'm really sick of people acting like we don't do the same ****.

We need to stop all the crap over seas, bring our guys home, and employ them to protect our borders...you know, the thing the military is supposed to do - NOT nation build and bomb any brown skinned nation that dares question anything we want.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 08:27 AM
 
8,950 posts, read 2,810,961 times
Reputation: 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Anyone else feel that our military should be placed on the border? Is it not the job of our military to protect our nation from invasion by a foreign miltary power? I wonder does mexico have a tank that can match our M1A1? I wonder how the mexican military would like to go up against say our 82 airborn or one of our Marine recon units?
Maybe its time we deploy our military on mexican soil? Nah lets keep them on ourside and let them play rough with their mexican counterparts.
Mexico's gangs can rival Mexicans military.

Our troops should have been at the border yesterday.
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Unread 01-23-2012, 08:29 AM
 
626 posts, read 326,990 times
Reputation: 596
^^they are busy playing War for our politicians in a sandbox at the moment, sorry^^
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Unread 01-23-2012, 09:17 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 5,238,525 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabronie View Post
AND? How many times have our forces gone across borders (with no permission) and carried out erroneous activities? I'm not saying it's right, but I'm really sick of people acting like we don't do the same ****.

We need to stop all the crap over seas, bring our guys home, and employ them to protect our borders...you know, the thing the military is supposed to do - NOT nation build and bomb any brown skinned nation that dares question anything we want.
You're comparing apples to oranges here. We don't go into other countries to aid and abet criminals. It is quite the opposite. "Brown skinned nations"? So we are bombing terrorist countries because of they and their innocent civilians "brown skin"? Talk about race card pulling. You should know better than that. If we are such a racist nation then why do we allow in so many "brown skinned" immigrants into our country?

I do however agree, that it is time we brought our troops home to protect our own borders.
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