U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-13-2015, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,057,966 times
Reputation: 18141

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I do speak English, quite fluently too I might add. If people think I might be making comments about them in Spanish, then they have serious insecurity problems (and you do too, for even bringing that up). While we're on that topic, how about people that whisper, no matter what the language? I hate when people whisper, how do I know they're not talking about me? I can't hear them, and they don't want to be heard. See how ridiculous that sounds? There is no difference between me speaking Spanish, and people whispering behind my back.

So if a lot of people took high school Spanish, and can get the general drift of my conversation, then what' the problem of me speaking Spanish? I mean, since you (in general) already know it, then I have no problem being understood and people will know I'm not talking about them. Problem solved, right? Considering that you stated the problem is I might be making rude comments towards others. But, if everyone understands, then it's not an issue.

I switch to English when someone wants to join in on my conversation, like my non-Spanish speaking friends. But, if no one comes in, then I continue on in Spanish. What's the problem?
Is it possible that you are paranoid about being suspected of being an illegal? You seem very defensive and that may be why someone might think you are an illegal. Freedom is about doing what you please, you can speak Spanish and those in your surroundings can think you are illegal.

Personally I think your biggest issue is your attitude not that you speak Spanish. The good news for you is that most illegals are not outspoken among non-Spanish speaking people at least here. They are sort of on the down-low.

I had a friend from Korea and she said that she did not like to speak in Korean when around English speaking people because she thought it was rude and the same with a Filipino friend and my daughter-in-law that is Filipino. You are just making a different choice and that is what freedom is about, you have the freedom to speak Spanish and I have the freedom to think you are an illegal. Deal with it.

OP, when did your family legally immigrant to the U.S.? Those with Spanish as a first language, mostly those anchor babies and older students with illegal papers getting into our schools, are costing legal US taxpayers tons of money and taking away education dollars for our students who are legal citizens of the US.

I think that with other than some Spanish speaking people, most coming into the country are eager and proud to speak the language.

Last edited by AnywhereElse; 02-13-2015 at 06:10 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-13-2015, 06:54 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,267,829 times
Reputation: 5901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
None have especially strong bona fides among most Latinos. Indeed, being second-generation white Cuban exiles puts them at odds with the overwhelming majority of Latinos in the United States, who are of mixed race or indigenous descent. Ted Cruz, who is not fluent in Spanish, has been called as Hispanic “as Tom Cruise.” In 2012, an anti-Rubio commercial on Spanish-language TV ended with the tag “No Somos Rubios” — a pun meaning both “We’re not Rubios” and “We’re not blonds” (or whites).
Read more at Ted Cruz office calls out NYT for belittling his ethnicity - Red Alert Politics

From your link.

If that upsets Mr Cruz: tough. He's an anglo white dude through and through, he'll NEVER be counted as a la raza Hispanic. I'm of Irish family: would I be accepted as "Irish" in Ireland, I don't think so. They'll see me as a "plastic Paddy" at best, because the way I roll will always profile me as a Yank in their country.
Actually we don't disagree on this, though my point being that clumsy GOP attempts like Cruz & Rubio to attract the "Hispanic vote", are so transparent and patronizing as to achieve the opposite. Because regardless whether they're gay, black, Jewish, "latino", whatever…. "outsider" groups of all persuasions are usually highly attuned to the seemingly "small" distinctions that help preserve their sense of 'identity'… distinctions which the dominant "mainstream" often doesn't "get" (like your excellent "plastic paddy" analogy)

And ironically, "latino" folks are among the most attuned to where they come from. But especially Mexican culture, where immigrants even identify according to their particular province (Michoacan, Guadalajara, Oaxaca, etc.)! Which is to say that current GOP attempts at "outreach" instead come across more like they're conveying the message, "hey, y'all look the same to us"!

BTW, when "latinos" choose to speak spanish, it isn't because they don't wanna 'learn English'. Instead it's usually because 'language' is simply another "cultural identifier", kinda like our own "tribal clues" ("How 'bout them Raiders…?")!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2015, 11:39 AM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,101,322 times
Reputation: 11576
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Is it possible that you are paranoid about being suspected of being an illegal? You seem very defensive and that may be why someone might think you are an illegal. Freedom is about doing what you please, you can speak Spanish and those in your surroundings can think you are illegal.

Personally I think your biggest issue is your attitude not that you speak Spanish. The good news for you is that most illegals are not outspoken among non-Spanish speaking people at least here. They are sort of on the down-low.

I had a friend from Korea and she said that she did not like to speak in Korean when around English speaking people because she thought it was rude and the same with a Filipino friend and my daughter-in-law that is Filipino. You are just making a different choice and that is what freedom is about, you have the freedom to speak Spanish and I have the freedom to think you are an illegal. Deal with it.

OP, when did your family legally immigrant to the U.S.? Those with Spanish as a first language, mostly those anchor babies and older students with illegal papers getting into our schools, are costing legal US taxpayers tons of money and taking away education dollars for our students who are legal citizens of the US.

I think that with other than some Spanish speaking people, most coming into the country are eager and proud to speak the language.

When did my family emigrate to the U.S.? Try 1898. Except we didn't emigrate, we were handed over to the U.S. at the end of the Spanish-American War. So, technically, my family were never immigrants to the U.S.

Last edited by theunbrainwashed; 02-13-2015 at 11:51 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2015, 03:19 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Actually we don't disagree on this, though my point being that clumsy GOP attempts like Cruz & Rubio to attract the "Hispanic vote", are so transparent and patronizing as to achieve the opposite. Because regardless whether they're gay, black, Jewish, "latino", whatever…. "outsider" groups of all persuasions are usually highly attuned to the seemingly "small" distinctions that help preserve their sense of 'identity'… distinctions which the dominant "mainstream" often doesn't "get" (like your excellent "plastic paddy" analogy)

And ironically, "latino" folks are among the most attuned to where they come from. But especially Mexican culture, where immigrants even identify according to their particular province (Michoacan, Guadalajara, Oaxaca, etc.)! Which is to say that current GOP attempts at "outreach" instead come across more like they're conveying the message, "hey, y'all look the same to us"!

BTW, when "latinos" choose to speak spanish, it isn't because they don't wanna 'learn English'. Instead it's usually because 'language' is simply another "cultural identifier", kinda like our own "tribal clues" ("How 'bout them Raiders…?")!
Uh; not real smart to hide behind Spanish or any other language in the US if those people CAN speak English and are US citizens. That just makes most of us Americans trust their kind even LESS and I ain't talking just about Indian Hispanics either. I'd feel that same way if talking about Russians, French, Chinese or any other group if they're living here legally and can speak English.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2015, 03:37 PM
 
31,462 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8346
Tribalism when it includes non-assimilation and a disrespect for our immigration laws is not a good thing for our country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-14-2015, 08:30 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,267,829 times
Reputation: 5901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Tribalism when it includes non-assimilation and a disrespect for our immigration laws is not a good thing for our country.
From slavery, moonshiners, the Hatfields & McCoys, to segregation, secession and gay marriage… heck, we've been dealing with "non-assimilation" problems and disrespect for our laws since the Civil War… with most of it ironically from the very same "tribe" doing all the complaining (and troublemaking) here today.

Although when a whole culture is based on staking out the "bottom of the heap", then it's probably not so surprising to wanna defend their "turf" (and honor) against competing "outsiders"… especially when those outsiders are willing to work hard for the kinda stuff that underclass 'natives' normally feel "entitled" to.
American Violence and Southern Culture
The U.S. is simply much more violent than other developed countries. And the region that brings up the national average is the South.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-14-2015, 09:53 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
From slavery, moonshiners, the Hatfields & McCoys, to segregation, secession and gay marriage… heck, we've been dealing with "non-assimilation" problems and disrespect for our laws since the Civil War… with most of it ironically from the very same "tribe" doing all the complaining (and troublemaking) here today.

Although when a whole culture is based on staking out the "bottom of the heap", then it's probably not so surprising to wanna defend their "turf" (and honor) against competing "outsiders"… especially when those outsiders are willing to work hard for the kinda stuff that underclass 'natives' normally feel "entitled" to.
American Violence and Southern Culture
The U.S. is simply much more violent than other developed countries. And the region that brings up the national average is the South.
Kinda sounds like you're talking about Mexico with its rich people treating the poor ones like dirt and its drug cartels offing each other too.

Take away the Black on Black murders in the hoods everywhere, I don't think our "South's" all that violent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-14-2015, 05:25 PM
 
31,462 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8346
If these "outsiders" are illegal aliens we have every right to complain and they are not doing jobs that Americans refuse to do. No American that I know of feels entitled to anything they didn't work for unless they are a spoiled rich person which the majority of Americans are not. How about stopping the hate filled lies in here?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-14-2015, 05:57 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,267,829 times
Reputation: 5901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Kinda sounds like you're talking about Mexico with its rich people treating the poor ones like dirt and its drug cartels offing each other too.

Take away the Black on Black murders in the hoods everywhere, I don't think our "South's" all that violent.
Ironically noted conservative author Thomas Sowell says much the same thing in his book, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals", that rural white "redneck" culture and urban black "ghetto" culture have so much in common, because they both descended from poor southern antebellum whites. Some folks just happen to "notice" the ghettos more.
"Sowell argues that the black ghetto culture, which is claimed to be "authentic black culture", is historically neither authentic nor black in origin. Instead, Sowell argues that the black ghetto culture is in fact a relic of a highly dysfunctional white southern redneck culture which existed during the antebellum South. This culture came, in turn, from the "Cracker culture" of the North Britons and Scots-Irish who migrated from the generally lawless border regions of Britain."

Sowell gives a number of examples that he regards as supporting the lineage, e.g.,

"an aversion to work, proneness to violence, neglect of education, sexual promiscuity, improvidence, drunkenness, lack of entrepreneurship,… and a style of religious oratory marked by strident rhetoric, unbridled emotions, and flamboyant imagery."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-14-2015, 08:09 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Ironically noted conservative author Thomas Sowell says much the same thing in his book, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals", that rural white "redneck" culture and urban black "ghetto" culture have so much in common, because they both descended from poor southern antebellum whites. Some folks just happen to "notice" the ghettos more.
"Sowell argues that the black ghetto culture, which is claimed to be "authentic black culture", is historically neither authentic nor black in origin. Instead, Sowell argues that the black ghetto culture is in fact a relic of a highly dysfunctional white southern redneck culture which existed during the antebellum South. This culture came, in turn, from the "Cracker culture" of the North Britons and Scots-Irish who migrated from the generally lawless border regions of Britain."

Sowell gives a number of examples that he regards as supporting the lineage, e.g.,

"an aversion to work, proneness to violence, neglect of education, sexual promiscuity, improvidence, drunkenness, lack of entrepreneurship,… and a style of religious oratory marked by strident rhetoric, unbridled emotions, and flamboyant imagery."
Def some truth to that except for 1 big thing: there's very LITTLE murder in 2015 within the "Redneck" world unless talking about tweakers which are hated by almost all people of any race compared to the out of control Black on Black killings.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top