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Old 03-31-2015, 06:24 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 761,392 times
Reputation: 2058

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I just started a new thread on this How H-1B Visas Are Screwing Tech Workers UPDATE


Blain you say you won't address anecdotal evidence, then why are you on this forum? This is not an academic forum where everything must be supported with citations. I have nonetheless provided many links to back up what I am saying. You have not provided any. I guess you want us to just "believe you" when you talk about MIT and the number of Asians there, as well as those other immigration numbers you cited for countries that can't compare to the USA economically, racially, historically, or in population numbers.

The USA is in debt, and that obviously affects the amount of social services we have to offer to "guest workers" and their families who rely on public assistance programs to survive. Why would you say an indebted country with barely anything to offer it's own citizens should continue to allow unskilled AND skilled guest workers to take jobs away from it's own taxpaying citizens? That is irrational. We need to take care of our own citizens, who already are taxpayers, FIRST before importing more people. There is no such thing as importing "future taxpayers" when you have millions of unemployed citizens who would be paying taxes if only they would be hired. Corporations and greedy business owners who would rather pay an illegal under the table or hire a guest worker are depleting the US of much needed tax dollars!

I don't understand what your drive or desire is to import more people? What is wrong with the American citizens that we have right now? Why aren't you advocating other countries to improve their standard of living for their own citizens? Why aren't you advocating the US improves things for it's own citizens, instead of foreign ones? The idea of immigration as a noble idea is strange. It made sense to the US in the 1800-early 1900's, but now? Why does a country trillions in debt, in the midst of a recession, need EVEN MORE PEOPLE?

I'll just leave this here to educate people about the population density of the US vs. other countries of the world: Population of all Countries of the World / All National Populations Largest to Smallest - Worldatlas.com

The US is the 3rd most densely populated country in the world.
Canada is #35, Australia is #50 . You mentioned Brazil earlier as one of the countries you couldn't see any comparison to with Sweden, Yet Brazil is the 5 most densely populated country and you are trying to compare the US with Switzerland and New Zealand. Lol. A comparison of the US to Canada and Australia and New Zealand, at #125, is really a big stretch. Densely populated countries are not going to as easily assimilate and absorb immigrants as less densely populated ones. We are running out of space, resources, JOBS and we already have run out of money. Why do you insist on maintaining an illusion that immigration is good for this country?

Last edited by Mangokiwi; 03-31-2015 at 06:35 PM..
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:39 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 761,392 times
Reputation: 2058
Quote:
Originally Posted by blainnyc View Post
"American" is extremely broad and general. It means little but a national boundary. It's not an ethnicity or a very specific cultural belief. It's not the same as saying someone is Japanese or Swedish or Italian. Anyone born in this country is "American", regardless of who they are. Not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I never understood it, but maybe because I live in New York. Here in NYC you have old Irish and Italian Americans that complain when "non-ethnic midwesterners" move into their neighborhoods. They're not just proud of being American, they're proud of their cultural heritage, which if anything, is more legitimate.

Just as, if given the choice, most "Americans" would probably live in an Asian or European immigrant neighborhood rather than an African American one, simply because they understand averages. We're not all that connected, and regionally, Americans can be very different.

If you want to understand my beliefs, you can read articles by Ron Unz and stuff by the notorious Charles Murray.
I would concur with this, I lived in NYC briefly, and all the New Yorkers I have met have a sort of strange antipathy to the rest of the country. They act as if NYC is it's own fiefdom and everywhere else in the USA is a flyover wasteland that they are scared of going to, and want nothing to do with. It's actually pretty downright un-American. NYC is clannish in that way. They have no understanding or interest in what goes on in the rest of the country, which is why I am baffled whenever a New Yorker tries to dictate what the rest of America should do. Try leaving the city once (and not to NJ or upstate NY) and see what America is really like sometime. There is an American pride, culture, and spirit that you are totally oblivious to as someone who lives in a concrete jungle artificial reality. Where do you think all that food comes from that you eat? Lol
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:50 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by blainnyc View Post
"American" is extremely broad and general. It means little but a national boundary. It's not an ethnicity or a very specific cultural belief. It's not the same as saying someone is Japanese or Swedish or Italian. Anyone born in this country is "American", regardless of who they are. Not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I never understood it, but maybe because I live in New York. Here in NYC you have old Irish and Italian Americans that complain when "non-ethnic midwesterners" move into their neighborhoods. They're not just proud of being American, they're proud of their cultural heritage, which if anything, is more legitimate.

Just as, if given the choice, most "Americans" would probably live in an Asian or European immigrant neighborhood rather than an African American one, simply because they understand averages. We're not all that connected, and regionally, Americans can be very different.

If you want to understand my beliefs, you can read articles by Ron Unz and stuff by the notorious Charles Murray.
Def NOT true there. MOST Germans speak "German" but word is a few are related to Polish people in language but, their passports in the US will still say "German" on them.

NYC is pretty much a "backwater" in 2015 since most its industry moved OUT since WW 2. I'm of Irish family but my ethnicity is "American". Maybe because I live in Arizona and there ain't much of that "ethnic white" thing here. We're ALL either "anglos" or "Hispanics" and that's just talking about white people.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
260 posts, read 305,205 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangokiwi View Post
I would concur with this, I lived in NYC briefly, and all the New Yorkers I have met have a sort of strange antipathy to the rest of the country. They act as if NYC is it's own fiefdom and everywhere else in the USA is a flyover wasteland that they are scared of going to, and want nothing to do with. It's actually pretty downright un-American. NYC is clannish in that way. They have no understanding or interest in what goes on in the rest of the country, which is why I am baffled whenever a New Yorker tries to dictate what the rest of America should do. Try leaving the city once (and not to NJ or upstate NY) and see what America is really like sometime. There is an American pride, culture, and spirit that you are totally oblivious to as someone who lives in a concrete jungle artificial reality. Where do you think all that food comes from that you eat? Lol
I've traveled plenty around the US, and just as much abroad, enough to realize the US has a lot of flaws compared to other developed countries. But this doesn't matter. I try to be objective, and I will not go off just my own personal experience.

I will not continue to respond to anecdotes that can't be factually backed up, nor will I respond to logical fallacies that twist what I say. That's what people do when they don't have an argument to make or back up.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:57 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 761,392 times
Reputation: 2058
Quote:
Originally Posted by blainnyc View Post
I've traveled plenty around the US, and just as much abroad, enough to realize the US has a lot of flaws compared to other developed countries. But this doesn't matter. I try to be objective, and I will not go off just my own personal experience.

I will not continue to respond to anecdotes that can't be factually backed up, nor will I respond to logical fallacies that twist what I say. That's what people do when they don't have an argument to make or back up.
So your personal experience is valid, but mine is "anecdotal evidence" and so you dismiss it. I see who has a twisted logic here.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:57 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by blainnyc View Post
I've traveled plenty around the US, and just as much abroad, enough to realize the US has a lot of flaws compared to other developed countries. But this doesn't matter. I try to be objective, and I will not go off just my own personal experience.

I will not continue to respond to anecdotes that can't be factually backed up, nor will I respond to logical fallacies that twist what I say. That's what people do when they don't have an argument to make or back up.
We've got our problems, yes. That's all the MORE reason to slam the door on MOST immigration and have "0" tolerance towards illegal aliens. Then maybe we can fix ourselves.
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
260 posts, read 305,205 times
Reputation: 168
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Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
We've got our problems, yes. That's all the MORE reason to slam the door on MOST immigration and have "0" tolerance towards illegal aliens. Then maybe we can fix ourselves.
There are some things in this country that cannot be fixed. We'll never have crime rates as low as Western Europe and developed East Asia, likely the same with test scores.
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:27 PM
 
31,483 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Originally Posted by blainnyc View Post
There are some things in this country that cannot be fixed. We'll never have crime rates as low as Western Europe and developed East Asia, likely the same with test scores.
The poster you are replying to said we can fix this illegal immigration mess and yes we can.

Last edited by Oldglory; 03-31-2015 at 08:07 PM..
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:42 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by blainnyc View Post
There are some things in this country that cannot be fixed. We'll never have crime rates as low as Western Europe and developed East Asia, likely the same with test scores.
Putting a stop to illegal immigration WILL help.
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Old 04-01-2015, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
519 posts, read 626,419 times
Reputation: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
We're totally screwed. If immigrants haven't come for your jobs yet, just wait...they will. You better hope you retire before that happens. And if you have kids, G-d have mercy on their souls. There are more and more people fighting for increasingly smaller pieces of the pie...and by the time today's kids enter the workforce, there will be nothing but crumbs left.

The future is indeed very bleak.

I have over 20 years to go before I can retire. I doubt I'll make it. I'll probably end up eating dog food and selling plasma to pay my bills.
I'm still in my late 20's and I'm feeling real uneasy about the future. But also intrigued and curious about what's to come for this country and the world. It's like the USA moves from one crisis to the next every time I flip on the TV.
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