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Old 03-30-2015, 08:03 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
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When Mike McMahon's Latino employees need to go to the bank, the pharmacy or the grocery store, he makes sure someone drives them to town, waits while they run errands, and then brings them safely back to his dairy farm.

Even then, there is no guarantee law enforcement in their small, rural community won't spot the workers, ask for their IDs, and put them on a path toward deportation if they cannot prove they are here legally. It is a risk that dairy farmers in this agricultural region have faced for years, but it is hitting them harder as immigration reform languishes in Washington and the nation's demand for milk-heavy products like Greek yogurt soars.

Dairy farmers, in dire need of workers, feel helpless as immigration reform sours - LA Times

It's like the illegal alien fans are starting to run really scared when they try to use fear tactics for their "slaves" to be allowed to stay in the US.
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:09 AM
 
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Aw, cry me river. These dairy farmers are hiring illegal aliens aka breaking the law and they are whining? Should have the book thrown at them for doing so.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna.
11,383 posts, read 6,794,913 times
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No one should sit in judgment on this issue unless he/she has actually experienced the demands of work in diary farming.

My father came home from service in World War II determined to take over a family dairy operation which had thrived between 1915-1935, but became a casualty of the increased demands for regulation and oversight spawned by the New Deal. He gradually learned that one man could, if he dedicated himself completely to the job, manage the herd of 20-30 producing animals that were the limit for one man, but getting beyond that by finding and retaining a reliable work force was very difficult, if not impossible.

Besides the necessity of mastering multiple disciplines -- everything from mechanics, to finance, to animal husbandry, and that work with both large animals and complex machinery poses numerous safety risks, one of the biggest negatives in dairying is that there is no on/off switch on a farm animal. You have to be prepared to rise at 5 AM to milk, and can do a second milking no earlier than 4 PM -- 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Even if you are fortunate enough to be able to hire help, it's a very depressing bet that most, of them will simply not show up on the mornings of major Holidays.

In the days before the full development of the service and 24-hour retail sectors, and the institutionalization of welfare and Unemployment Compensation, farm labor was often the only option for young men starting their adult lives in rural areas. Those individuals, if they could find no other means of employment, reported to the Poor District or Overseer of the Poor, usually a farmer or small businessman who could always find something for them to do in return for absolute minimum compensation. With the mechanical barn cleaner still in development prior to 1960, mucking manure out of gutters and calf pens with a shovel was usually the last resort.

And over a 44-year career, I can count on the fingers of one hand the occasions when my Dad left the farm for more than one overnight. When we were in college, my brother and I agreed to try to get our parents to take a full week's vacation. They got about 400 miles away, and turned back after one night.

In recent years, Latinos seem to be the employee of choice for the handful of families still trying to operate small dairy operations single- or double-handed. Apparently, conditions in much of the world south of our borders still enjoin most people in Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America from providing much of their own agriculture, and the rewards in milk, home-raised meat, and other produce can be a substantial enhancement. Aiding in familiarization with the local culture and societal obligations also pays off. And although policing can be difficult, and some farmers probably succumb to the temptation to casually hire an illegal relative of a reliable worker during peak seasons, the vast majority of full-time farm workers are in the country legally.

But I can assure all here that if the typical American suburban teenager got a fast exposure to working conditions on many small dairy farms, they would run away screaming in no time.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-30-2015 at 10:06 AM..
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:46 PM
 
31,514 posts, read 14,580,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
No one should sit in judgment on this issue unless he/she has actually experienced the demands of work in diary farming.

My father came home from service in World War II determined to take over a family dairy operation which had thrived between 1915-1935, but became a casualty of the increased demands for regulation and oversight spawned by the New Deal. He gradually learned that one man could, if he dedicated himself completely to the job, manage the herd of 20-30 producing animals that were the limit for one man, but getting beyond that by finding and retaining a reliable work force was very difficult, if not impossible.

Besides the necessity of mastering multiple disciplines -- everything from mechanics, to finance, to animal husbandry, and that work with both large animals and complex machinery poses numerous safety risks, one of the biggest negatives in dairying is that there is no on/off switch on a farm animal. You have to be prepared to rise at 5 AM to milk, and can do a second milking no earlier than 4 PM -- 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Even if you are fortunate enough to be able to hire help, it's a very depressing bet that most, of them will simply not show up on the mornings of major Holidays.

In the days before the full development of the service and 24-hour retail sectors, and the institutionalization of welfare and Unemployment Compensation, farm labor was often the only option for young men starting their adult lives in rural areas. Those individuals, if they could find no other means of employment, reported to the Poor District or Overseer of the Poor, usually a farmer or small businessman who could always find something for them to do in return for absolute minimum compensation. With the mechanical barn cleaner still in development prior to 1960, mucking manure out of gutters and calf pens with a shovel was usually the last resort.

And over a 44-year career, I can count on the fingers of one hand the occasions when my Dad left the farm for more than one overnight. When we were in college, my brother and I agreed to try to get our parents to take a full week's vacation. They got about 400 miles away, and turned back after one night.

In recent years, Latinos seem to be the employee of choice for the handful of families still trying to operate small dairy operations single- or double-handed. Apparently, conditions in much of the world south of our borders still enjoin most people in Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America from providing much of their own agriculture, and the rewards in milk, home-raised meat, and other produce can be a substantial enhancement. Aiding in familiarization with the local culture and societal obligations also pays off. And although policing can be difficult, and some farmers probably succumb to the temptation to casually hire an illegal relative of a reliable worker during peak seasons, the vast majority of full-time farm workers are in the country legally.

But I can assure all here that if the typical American suburban teenager got a fast exposure to working conditions on many small dairy farms, they would run away screaming in no time.
Not if that teenager lives in a rural area. I don't supposed that city kids want to do those jobs though. Doesn't matter anyway. No one has the right to hire illegal aliens.
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:32 PM
 
11,501 posts, read 5,515,070 times
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Not if that teenager lives in a rural area. I don't supposed that city kids want to do those jobs though. Doesn't matter anyway. No one has the right to hire illegal aliens.
My daughter went to college in the midwest. Many of her fellow students lived in rural areas and during their summer vacations, they would do farm work.

Dairy farmers, like other farmers, have an agricultural visa program that they can use and this visa doesn't have any caps on it. There is no excuse for them to not use it. The ones who refuse to use it are the sleazy ones who prefer to hire cheap, exploitable, illegal labor. I can't understand how anyone can feel sorry for those who refuse to use it.
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:16 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
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Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
My daughter went to college in the midwest. Many of her fellow students lived in rural areas and during their summer vacations, they would do farm work.

Dairy farmers, like other farmers, have an agricultural visa program that they can use and this visa doesn't have any caps on it. There is no excuse for them to not use it. The ones who refuse to use it are the sleazy ones who prefer to hire cheap, exploitable, illegal labor. I can't understand how anyone can feel sorry for those who refuse to use it.
Agreed and the thing about 1 head of lettuce going for 10 dollars with NO illegal aliens is a pile of BS anyway. If farm wages went UP anywhere near that; farmers would have 10 QUALIFIED applicants for every job IMHO and that head of lettuce still would NOT be anywhere near 10 dollar, more like 2 dollars. Or in the case of a gallon of milk, maybe 1 to 2 dollars more. Big deal.
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Agreed and the thing about 1 head of lettuce going for 10 dollars with NO illegal aliens is a pile of BS anyway. If farm wages went UP anywhere near that; farmers would have 10 QUALIFIED applicants for every job IMHO and that head of lettuce still would NOT be anywhere near 10 dollar, more like 2 dollars. Or in the case of a gallon of milk, maybe 1 to 2 dollars more. Big deal.
Since most illegals aren't picking crops that argument about high prices without them picking them is moot. Besides, when you add in their enormous social costs that their employers pass on to us those so-called cheap crops aren't so cheap after all.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:06 PM
 
3,533 posts, read 2,172,379 times
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The dozen or so dairy farms within 30 miles of me (east county San Diego) all offer $15/hr to start and still make a decent profit. It is true though that they have trouble getting unskilled labor willing to work for that.
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Old 03-31-2015, 03:24 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 761,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
My daughter went to college in the midwest. Many of her fellow students lived in rural areas and during their summer vacations, they would do farm work.

Dairy farmers, like other farmers, have an agricultural visa program that they can use and this visa doesn't have any caps on it. There is no excuse for them to not use it. The ones who refuse to use it are the sleazy ones who prefer to hire cheap, exploitable, illegal labor. I can't understand how anyone can feel sorry for those who refuse to use it.
Yes I agree, there is no excuse to break the law and hire cheap labor. Do what farmers have done for centuries, have more kids! They are the farm workers that many modern farmers use, at least, the ones who don't break the law.

If a farmer doesn't have kids there are plenty of otherAmerican workers in the USA already who are US citizens in need of a job.
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Old 03-31-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 761,848 times
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Since most illegals aren't picking crops that argument about high prices without them picking them is moot. Besides, when you add in their enormous social costs that their employers pass on to us those so-called cheap crops aren't so cheap after all.
Yes , the social costs being that the so called "migrant farm workers" who are illegals live off of government subsidies, often in government housing, while they are working, and saving up whatever they can to take with them to Wal-Mart and wire the money back to Mexico. Robbing taxpayer dollars from US citizens AND sending our dollars out of this country.

Destroying our country is the price we are paying for allowing these illegals to work here.
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