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Old 01-17-2008, 04:23 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
The hospital is the beneficiary of the Medicare payment, not the illegal immigrant. That’s the distinction. The illegal immigrant is not legally eligible to receive Medicare money.
Medicare and Medicaid do end up paying for a significant hunk of their care. I just want to make it clear that even though illegal aliens are not eligible to receive Medicare funds because of their 'undocumented status', Medicare ends up paying out anyhow.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:33 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,163,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
The hospital is the beneficiary of the Medicare payment, not the illegal immigrant. That’s the distinction. The illegal immigrant is not legally eligible to receive Medicare money.
Actually, the hospital gets the payment, but they are providing a service for it. The hospital is not getting the handout, the illegal being treated is. Just because Medicare is not placing the money into the illegals' hands, doesn't mean they aren't the beneficiary of it. It's probably set up this way because if they were to be entrusted to take "free" government money which Joe Taxpayer knows isn't free, and give it to the hospitals themselves...well, we all know what would happen with that "free" money.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,124,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Medicare and Medicaid do end up paying for a significant hunk of their care. I just want to make it clear that even though illegal aliens are not eligible to receive Medicare funds because of their 'undocumented status', Medicare ends up paying out anyhow.
Due to Congressional legislation the 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA), it required hospitals with a dedicated emergency room to provide appropriate screening and emergency treatment to people, regardless of their ability to pay.

This benefits not just illegals, but also the uninsured, and underinsured, or really anyone who requires emergency treatment. Do the illegals benefit, yeah, they don’t pay for the services. Just like the US citizen who does not have insurance and ends up filing for bankruptcy due to medical bills. But the hospital benefits by not closing up shop because it is still getting some payment to keep its doors open, or at least mostly open.

But the fact remains, are benefits paid to illegals? No.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,124,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Actually, the hospital gets the payment, but they are providing a service for it. The hospital is not getting the handout, the illegal being treated is. Just because Medicare is not placing the money into the illegals' hands, doesn't mean they aren't the beneficiary of it.
The topic of the discussion is “Social Security/Medicare for Illegals”. The reality is that illegals are not legally eligible for Social Security or Medicare. They will not legally receive any medicare money. They can only obtain it illegally which is practiced by citizens and non-citizens alike.

In the case of the hospital getting medicare payments, the illegal may benefit by not having to pay, but the illegal did not get any money, the hospital did.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:57 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,163,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
Due to Congressional legislation the 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA), it required hospitals with a dedicated emergency room to provide appropriate screening and emergency treatment to people, regardless of their ability to pay.

This benefits not just illegals, but also the uninsured, and underinsured, or really anyone who requires emergency treatment. Do the illegals benefit, yeah, they don’t pay for the services. Just like the US citizen who does not have insurance and ends up filing for bankruptcy due to medical bills. But the hospital benefits by not closing up shop because it is still getting some payment to keep its doors open, or at least mostly open.

But the fact remains, are benefits paid to illegals? No.
So now this is a play on words to you? Because illegals are not handed money for the care they receive in our hospitals, doesn't mean they aren't actually getting the care in our hospitals. One might think, based on your position, that the hospital is somehow being "blessed" financially by our tax dollars for providing this care to people who have no business being here in the first place. I am sure the border town hospitals are giddy with excitement at their "windfall" of tax dollars paid to try to offset their losses due to illegal patient care.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:00 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
Due to Congressional legislation the 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA), it required hospitals with a dedicated emergency room to provide appropriate screening and emergency treatment to people, regardless of their ability to pay.

This benefits not just illegals, but also the uninsured, and underinsured, or really anyone who requires emergency treatment. Do the illegals benefit, yeah, they don’t pay for the services. Just like the US citizen who does not have insurance and ends up filing for bankruptcy due to medical bills. But the hospital benefits by not closing up shop because it is still getting some payment to keep its doors open, or at least mostly open.

But the fact remains, are benefits paid to illegals? No.
Then technically benefits are not paid to US citizens either. Medicare or Medicaid gives direct payment to the hospital. The person covered never sees the money. IMO, the bottom line is that the bill is paid.

scenario #1
American eligible for Medicare shows up at ER and receives care. He/she presents Medicare card to billing personnel. Medicare receives the claim.
Medicare sends money to the hospital.

scenario #2
Illegal alien shows up at ER and receives care. He walks out the door. The hospital is in the red because too many people who should not be here don't pay their bills. Hospital complains to the government.
Medicare sends money to the hospital.

The difference between the the uninsured, and underinsured, or really anyone who requires emergency treatment and the illegal alien is that the former are either citizens or in the country legally. Our system is set up to provide care for US citizens and legal residents, just like Canada's system is set up to serve the Canadian people. Neither our health care system, or any other countries for that matter, is set up to provide care to many millions of another country's citizens. Nor should it be.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,124,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
So now this is a play on words to you? Because illegals are not handed money for the care they receive in our hospitals, doesn't mean they aren't actually getting the care in our hospitals. One might think, based on your position, that the hospital is somehow being "blessed" financially by our tax dollars for providing this care to people who have no business being here in the first place. I am sure the border town hospitals are giddy with excitement at their "windfall" of tax dollars paid to try to offset their losses due to illegal patient care.
Ok, I see how you prefer to view the situation, how about I provide you a scenario so you can see my perspective.

A child is hurt in a serious accident. The child is rushed to the nearest emergency room via ambulance. The ambulance is going with lights and sirens on to the hospital ER. Do you think the thought that races through everyone’s mind is, “gee, too bad illegal immigrants are not paying for care at the ER and that the hospital is only able to stay afloat and remain open because of Medicare payments”.

Or are they thinking “I’m happy this ER is open!”

So yeah, I do see the hospital and anyone who needs the hospital ER as being “blessed” due to the medicare payments that are allowing them to remain open.
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:36 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
The topic of the discussion is “Social Security/Medicare for Illegals”. The reality is that illegals are not legally eligible for Social Security or Medicare.
True. Illegal aliens are not eligible to enroll in the Medicare program.
Quote:
They will not legally receive any medicare money. They can only obtain it illegally which is practiced by citizens and non-citizens alike.
Not really. Illegals do not have to resort to illegal tactics to receive benefits from Medicare. (benefits= bills paid)
When an American and an illegal show up in an ER and receive medical treatment, both get a bill. It is the American's responsibility to pay his bill. It is the illegal aliens responsibility to pay his bill. They each 'own' the bill for their care.
If the American is enrolled in the Medicare program, he submits his bill and Medicare pays their part, sending the money directly to the hospital.
If the illegal alien does not pay his bill and the hospital is running in the red, the government then directs Medicare to pay part of his bill, even though the illegal is technically not eligible for Medicare.

Quote:
In the case of the hospital getting medicare payments, the illegal may benefit by not having to pay, but the illegal did not get any money, the hospital did.
Most people would benefit by not having to pay for medical care. The bottom line is that a person who should not even be in the country in the first place, had his medical care covered by the US taxpayer.
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,124,135 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
The bottom line is that a person who should not even be in the country in the first place, had his medical care covered by the US taxpayer.
The bottom line is that the hospital ER still remains open for people who need it due to Medicare payments.

This is usually the jump the shark moment in the immigration threads, when the “they shouldn’t be here in the country in the first place” comments come out it usually means the discussion of the actual issue has ended. I think I’ve made my point: Illegal immigrants are not allowed to legally enroll in Medicare. Nothing has so far proven that point false.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,366,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
The bottom line is that the hospital ER still remains open for people who need it due to Medicare payments.
Yet, there are examples of "ER" / Quick Care centers in communities that have had to close down because they were not compensated for medical treatments to illegals - the sheer volumn of illegal immigrants broke them financially
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