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Old 01-21-2008, 03:42 PM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,346,148 times
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I agree HSCCS!
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Old 01-22-2008, 01:40 PM
 
170 posts, read 908,596 times
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I firmly agree.

Extreme Liberals argue the point they come here to make money for a better life. Of course they do!! It's still illegal though!!

A drug dealer on the street doesnt do it as a hobby. He does it to make money for a better life!!!

The bank robber didnt rob the bank because he had nothing to do that day. He did it for money for a better life

Illegal is Illegal!

Anyone who says Anti-Illegal Immigration is racist is a moron.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:22 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfingiskewl View Post
I firmly agree.
Illegal is Illegal!

Anyone who says Anti-Illegal Immigration is racist is a moron.
Illegal immigration is a legal matter, involving unauthorized entry (trespass) and violating of national sovereignty.

Unfortunately, it's ALSO an issue of tremendous interest to racists. Some racists dislike ALL Hispanics, and here is an easy way to "lash out" at them, because most illegals are Hispanic.

Other racists want special rights FOR Hispanics. These racists then "lash out" at anyone who speaks out against illegal immigration, by accusing them of being "anti-Hispanic".

It's a simple legal issue, made tremendously more complex by having a 'racial' component.

*If one white Lutheran assaulted ANOTHER white Lutheran, it would be a matter of 'assault"..

*If a white Catholic assaulted a white Jew, it would be a "religiously-motivated" attack...

*And if a white Baptist assaulted a black Baptist, it would be a "racial" incident....

Three assaults, three "bloody noses", three ENTIRELY different 'labels'....

Illegal immigration is TRESPASS, often given another 'label"...
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:47 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,059,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Illegal immigration is a legal matter, involving unauthorized entry (trespass) and violating of national sovereignty.

Unfortunately, it's ALSO an issue of tremendous interest to racists. Some racists dislike ALL Hispanics, and here is an easy way to "lash out" at them, because most illegals are Hispanic.

Other racists want special rights FOR Hispanics. These racists then "lash out" at anyone who speaks out against illegal immigration, by accusing them of being "anti-Hispanic".

It's a simple legal issue, made tremendously more complex by having a 'racial' component.
Anti-illegal/pro-enforcement arguments from all races of Americans are essentially the same, which shows that there is no race component to the arguments. Latino citizens who oppose illegal immigration do so for the same reasons I do, as a caucasian. True racists may co-opt the arguments, but that doesn't render such arguments racist themselves. The error made by the pro-illegal side is in attributing any and all anti-illegal arguments to racism. Such a tactic is demagoguery at its finest, and it worked for a while (still does with many).

This isn't to say that there is no cultural component to immigration, illegal or otherwise. Here is where race ties in, as it often does with a particular culture. Regardless, that people react to foreign culture is human nature. Culture clash is a real phenomenon, yet, through various policies, societal attitudes and other factors, we've arrived at a place where we're told and expected to ignore this very real phenomenon.

The US has gone through these stages many times before. In history, immigration (which was virtually always legal) has peaked, with accompanying cultural tension, then was halted while the nation and communities absorbed the new cultures. Tensions were brought closer to balance, and the new arrivals and their families assimilated into the US mainstream. This was the melting pot in action.

We've experienced a huge wave of immigrants over the past several decades. It's time to choke off the valve. If the government gets serious and enforces the law - I believe a decrease in legal immigration would be in order as well - I will then even accept amnesty for those already here. Let's absorb who and what we've taken in, and the process will again work just fine.

If, however, nothing is done to stop the trend, the consequences can be severe. As I've already stated, contrary to the ideals of do-gooders and the fiscal policies of the powerful, cuture clash is a very real and natural human phenomenon.

Last edited by nvxplorer; 01-22-2008 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:54 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Anti-illegal/pro-enforcement arguments from all races of Americans are essentially the same, which shows that there is no race component to the arguments. Latino citizens who oppose illegal immigration do so for the same reasons I do, as a caucasian. True racists may co-opt the arguments, but that doesn't render such arguments racist themselves. The error made by the pro-illegal side is in attributing any and all anti-illegal arguments to racism. Such a tactic is demagoguery at its finest, and it worked for a while (still does with many).

This isn't to say that there is no cultural component to immigration, illegal or otherwise. Here is where race ties in, as it often does with a particular culture. Regardless, that people react to foreign culture is human nature. Culture clash is a real phenomenon, yet, through various policies, societal attitudes and other factors, we've arrived at a place where we're told and expected to ignore this very real phenomenon.

The US has gone through these stages many times before. In history, immigration (which was virtually always legal) has peaked, with accompanying cultural tension, then was halted while the nation and communities absorbed the new cultures. Tensions were brought closer to balance, and the new arrivals and their families assimilated into the US mainstream. This was the melting pot in action.

We've experienced a huge wave of immigrants over the past several decades. It's time to choke off the valve. If the government gets serious and enforces the law - I believe a decrease in legal immigration would be in order as well - I will then even accept amnesty for those already here. Let's absorb who and what we've taken in, and the process will again work just fine.

If, however, nothing is done to stop the trend, the consequences can be severe. As I've already stated, contrary to the ideals of do-gooders and the fiscal policies of the powerful, cuture clash is a very real and natural human phenomenon.
Agreed--- this, plus the extremely important fact that earlier immigration came, into a nation very 'full of itself'. Everyone 'knew' America was "The Greatest Nation on Earth" (and anyone who doubted that, had only to look at the hordes of eager immigrants entering and 'assimilating'--that PROVED we were the greatest)..

Today, immigrants are coming illegally into a nation no longer 'sure of itself'---a nation which feels it HAS no culture, that multiculturalism is 'neat', and ANY change is, by definition, a GOOD change. BIG difference. The 'new' immigrants aren't expected to assimilate--in no small part, because we ourselves don't want them to lose their 'culture'. Talk about a CONFUSING MESSAGE !.....The results are predictable.
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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What would be a hoot would be watching a bunch of Argentine Neo-Nazi's mixing it up with their US 'brethren'--------both groups are White Supremacist.
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Anti-illegal/pro-enforcement arguments from all races of Americans are essentially the same, which shows that there is no race component to the arguments. Latino citizens who oppose illegal immigration do so for the same reasons I do, as a caucasian. True racists may co-opt the arguments, but that doesn't render such arguments racist themselves. The error made by the pro-illegal side is in attributing any and all anti-illegal arguments to racism. Such a tactic is demagoguery at its finest, and it worked for a while (still does with many).

This isn't to say that there is no cultural component to immigration, illegal or otherwise. Here is where race ties in, as it often does with a particular culture. Regardless, that people react to foreign culture is human nature. Culture clash is a real phenomenon, yet, through various policies, societal attitudes and other factors, we've arrived at a place where we're told and expected to ignore this very real phenomenon.

The US has gone through these stages many times before. In history, immigration (which was virtually always legal) has peaked, with accompanying cultural tension, then was halted while the nation and communities absorbed the new cultures. Tensions were brought closer to balance, and the new arrivals and their families assimilated into the US mainstream. This was the melting pot in action.

We've experienced a huge wave of immigrants over the past several decades. It's time to choke off the valve. If the government gets serious and enforces the law - I believe a decrease in legal immigration would be in order as well - I will then even accept amnesty for those already here. Let's absorb who and what we've taken in, and the process will again work just fine.

If, however, nothing is done to stop the trend, the consequences can be severe. As I've already stated, contrary to the ideals of do-gooders and the fiscal policies of the powerful, cuture clash is a very real and natural human phenomenon.
Frankly; once about 80% of the illegals self deport (with their Anchor Babies), then a limited amnesty may be in order for the few left.
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:58 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,059,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Frankly; once about 80% of the illegals self deport (with their Anchor Babies), then a limited amnesty may be in order for the few left.
I agree, but if a compromise is proposed that includes amnesty, I will consider it if and only if effective enforcement is enacted and practiced. In common terms; if Mr. and Mrs. Illegal wish to remain in the US, I will support such a proposal as long as their compatriots back home agree to stay home.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:55 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
I agree, but if a compromise is proposed that includes amnesty, I will consider it if and only if effective enforcement is enacted and practiced. In common terms; if Mr. and Mrs. Illegal wish to remain in the US, I will support such a proposal as long as their compatriots back home agree to stay home.
I've gone so far as to risk the wrath of my fellow "forum crowd" by saying I'd totally DOWNPLAY the need for MOST deportation---don't deport anyone, for example, who's been here longer than three years (or some comparable figure). But I INSIST that we rigidly, unequivocably cut off ALL future illegal immigration--no 'buts', no 'maybes', it's instant jail time., and 'out you go'.

So far, I've heard NO person in 'authority' remotely interested in this 'take'---which is why I remain extremely skeptical about the benefits of amnesty. Lots of people want to "have their amnesty and keep their border open", to use the old "cake" analogy....Sorry, NOT INTERESTED.

Perhaps immigration is like the relationship between the sexes---guys don't respect girls who are too "easy"----and so it goes with immigrants 'respecting' nations, a well....Girls, as well as nations, have to learn to say "no", if they want to be respected. (No, we won't discuss 'date rape'..though, at times, it comes close..)

Last edited by macmeal; 01-22-2008 at 06:06 PM..
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:30 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,874,837 times
Reputation: 317
I agree since I live in L.A. over many decades have seen destruction in all aspects of life by illegal immigration. The new class of illegals is dangerous say the officials and that is why things are scary now in nice areas, even.

I promise all readers, that if we do not reverse this curse, every American will end up regretting it, even those who are in various states and now cannot see illegal immigration as such a bad thing....this is what I used to think in the late 80's to the early 90's.

So, beware of those candidates who think 'there are no illegals', who do not want to put up a fence that stops illegals, drugs and terrorists, and not want to deport those here...these are the candidates who will keep letting illegals cross the borders, and thus keep letting the middle class go to poverty, and the poor get poorer. Their goals are strong for globalism, not for the citizens. We can have a good economy, yet nothing but poor people with a few rich living here, you know.
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