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Old 07-31-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Virginia
6,230 posts, read 3,609,008 times
Reputation: 8963

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What a ridiculous article. The author says people are more productive in rich countries due to technology and more skilled workers. I fail to see how those apply to people who are picking crops, doing housekeeping, selling frozen fruit by the roadside, working in meat processing plants, or sewing in factories. He is completely blurring the line between legal and illegal immigration.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:31 PM
 
62,958 posts, read 29,141,740 times
Reputation: 18587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaphawoman View Post
What a ridiculous article. The author says people are more productive in rich countries due to technology and more skilled workers. I fail to see how those apply to people who are picking crops, doing housekeeping, selling frozen fruit by the roadside, working in meat processing plants, or sewing in factories. He is completely blurring the line between legal and illegal immigration.
Which is what pro-illegal/open border's types do.
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Old 08-04-2015, 01:48 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
783 posts, read 695,595 times
Reputation: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaphawoman View Post
What a ridiculous article. The author says people are more productive in rich countries due to technology and more skilled workers. I fail to see how those apply to people who are picking crops, doing housekeeping, selling frozen fruit by the roadside, working in meat processing plants, or sewing in factories. He is completely blurring the line between legal and illegal immigration.
They are more productive because the existence of things like electricity enabling them to complement skilled workers.

If a person who is an engineer has to take time away from doing complex designs in order to cook food for himself, society would lose more value per hour of his time. An immigrant would allow for very skilled people to continue to do more complex (and productive) work. He is contributing to making society a lot more productive than if he were standing in for a farmer who planted with primitive tools.

Secondly the immigrant would probably have things like electricity to power his ability to work in a sewing factory. Having unreliable energy grids (like they have in poorer countries) holds the productivity of the worker back.

Immigration is awesome, it should just be called moving
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Old 08-04-2015, 07:24 AM
 
62,958 posts, read 29,141,740 times
Reputation: 18587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicist027 View Post
They are more productive because the existence of things like electricity enabling them to complement skilled workers.

If a person who is an engineer has to take time away from doing complex designs in order to cook food for himself, society would lose more value per hour of his time. An immigrant would allow for very skilled people to continue to do more complex (and productive) work. He is contributing to making society a lot more productive than if he were standing in for a farmer who planted with primitive tools.

Secondly the immigrant would probably have things like electricity to power his ability to work in a sewing factory. Having unreliable energy grids (like they have in poorer countries) holds the productivity of the worker back.

Immigration is awesome, it should just be called moving
This is the illegal immigration forum. There is a City-Data forum for legal immigration. You do know the difference between those two groups, don't you? You sound like an open borders type though which would be devastating to our country and its citizens.
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:31 AM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,903,758 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicist027 View Post
They are more productive because the existence of things like electricity enabling them to complement skilled workers.

If a person who is an engineer has to take time away from doing complex designs in order to cook food for himself, society would lose more value per hour of his time. An immigrant would allow for very skilled people to continue to do more complex (and productive) work. He is contributing to making society a lot more productive than if he were standing in for a farmer who planted with primitive tools.

Secondly the immigrant would probably have things like electricity to power his ability to work in a sewing factory. Having unreliable energy grids (like they have in poorer countries) holds the productivity of the worker back.

Immigration is awesome, it should just be called moving
Legal immigration I'm Ok with because can can decide who to let in and who to keep out.

ILLEGAL immigration ain't Ok; just ask Mexico how they treat illegal Guatemalans, even tho that little country was part of Mexico almost 200 years back.
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
783 posts, read 695,595 times
Reputation: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
This is the illegal immigration forum. There is a City-Data forum for legal immigration. You do know the difference between those two groups, don't you? You sound like an open borders type though which would be devastating to our country and its citizens.
The argument is the same regardless of whether or not the immigration is legal. Although illegal immigration is actually better for Americans because we don't owe them benefits. Also they can be paid even lower wages because they are not covered under minimal wage.
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:48 AM
 
62,958 posts, read 29,141,740 times
Reputation: 18587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicist027 View Post
The argument is the same regardless of whether or not the immigration is legal. Although illegal immigration is actually better for Americans because we don't owe them benefits. Also they can be paid even lower wages because they are not covered under minimal wage.
It matters not why an "immigrant" comes here. The point is whether they did it legally as in the past or today or those who come here illegally. The latter is unacceptable. Illegal aliens get many benefits in this country especially if they have U.S. born kids such as education, welfare and healthcare. The reason that the employers hire them is exactly what you stated in your last sentence. Because of that American workers are passed over for jobs or laid off from their jobs and replaced by illegal aliens. The construction industry is a good example of that. Surely, you don't think that is a good thing.
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:38 AM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,903,758 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicist027 View Post
The argument is the same regardless of whether or not the immigration is legal. Although illegal immigration is actually better for Americans because we don't owe them benefits. Also they can be paid even lower wages because they are not covered under minimal wage.
What?! ILLEGAL immigration ain't good for Americans because their despicable kind force our wages DOWN.
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,636 posts, read 18,227,675 times
Reputation: 34509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicist027 View Post
The argument is the same regardless of whether or not the immigration is legal. Although illegal immigration is actually better for Americans because we don't owe them benefits. Also they can be paid even lower wages because they are not covered under minimal wage.
Illegal immigration is worse because we don't know how many or who is in the country. And it leads to cheaper labor/pushing Americans (in some, though not all, fields, including construction and other areas) out of the workforce. Not to mention that illegal immigrants are getting beefits, from police services, to education, to emergency healthcare services, etc. Not to mention that, once they are here, the risk of all of the above happening increases as leftist politicians (Sanders is an outlier here) start pandering to the illegal immigrants.
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
Reputation: 24863
We could cut the demand for illegal immigrant workers by prosecuting their employers from contractors supplying labor to the forest Service among others to the huge agricultural corporations growing and processing food. If found guilty the corporations should be fined enough to bankrupt them and their executives jailed.

We should stop the insane H1b immigration of professional labor. They are taking the jobs that Americans worked hard and paid a lot to learn in college. Just because some guy from India is willing to take less pay is not a good enough reason to employ him instead of an American Citizen. I want to stop subsidizing Silicon Valley and the finance industry with the jobs needed by Americans.

In a related topic we need to impose countervailing tariffs to negate the advantage created by differences in wages, working conditions, environmental rules and government subsidy in nations that import goods to the US. At least we should institute tariffs equal to those imposed on us like the 20% China collects on US imports to that country.

Open and free trade is impossible. We need to institute fair trade that is good for the American worker no matter what it does to the American that invests in other countries.
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