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Old 02-08-2008, 02:32 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
Reputation: 2983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ioncre View Post
and one more think.... about you precious american flag.... i bought an american flag on which you could see more clearly "MADE IN CHINA" than the flag's stars. hypocrisy
I once ate Turkey that was raised in the United States. I've eaten Mexican food cooked in California. Much of the Irish coffee, the German Chocolate Cake, the French bread, and the Belgian Waffles we consume in America aren't authentic, either. Scotch Tape is made in Minnesota, USA.
Pennsylvania Dutch people are usually of GERMAN descent. But the very BIGGEST fraud of ALL (and the one that makes me the angriest) is the "Swiss Chocolate" they push on us. I happen to KNOW that the cacao bean cannot even be GROWN in Switzerland, due to the climate.

What a bunch of PHONIES we all are !....American flags from China don't surprise me a bit. My grandmother even owned some "China ware" that was made in France.....

Sure makes ME feel foolish.
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Old 02-08-2008, 02:33 PM
 
65 posts, read 108,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Absolutely on target. GREAT analogy, in contrast to the silliness of the previous example. Well-crafted...."America is an AWFUL place, mean, xenophobic, and racist" is a charge made with montonous frequency. But we never get to hear, "meaner than 'who'?.....more xenophobic than 'where'?......racist, in comparison to what OTHER society?".....the answer is usually dead silence... As I've said many times, America may be tough on illegal Mexicans, but it treats them a lot better than Mexico does....
very well said.. but still, not tuff enough on illegals.. we have watched many horror documentaries on how mexico treats illegals in thier country. mexico will rob, beat, and imprison thier illegals.
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Old 02-08-2008, 03:00 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanMan View Post
very well said.. but still, not tuff enough on illegals.. we have watched many horror documentaries on how mexico treats illegals in thier country. mexico will rob, beat, and imprison thier illegals.
That, too.....following which, they're deported....
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Old 02-08-2008, 03:38 PM
 
7 posts, read 13,564 times
Reputation: 12
To refute something because "you" (most posters) say that in other countries worst things happen is flawed. We should not strive to be the "best" nation of all nations, but the "best" nation that we can be. Also, as a side point, to say all illegal immigrants don't bother adapting to our culture in many cases mistaken. If we continue to stereotype, no progress will be made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Barton View Post
I will never understand why the U.S. army isn't at the border. We are being invaded by Mexicans, Asians, Hindus, terrorists and other third-worlders. They let them walk all over us. It's unnecessary, too, they could easily be kicked out.
There is nothing wrong with Mexicans, Asians, and Hindus, and "third-worlders", why do we have a greater right to the liberties that America provides than legal immigrants do (note the legal part of the sentence). As for illegal immigrants, changes in law should be made. But to induce resentful feelings towards them does no good.

NPR writes answering the question What is the impact of illegal immigration on wages in the U.S. "Well, for an individual, it depends on where you are, what kind of work you do and whether you have skills that illegal immigrants don't. But overall, illegal immigrants don't have a big impact on U.S. wage rates. The most respected recent studies show that most Americans would notice little difference in their paychecks if illegal immigrants suddenly disappeared from the United States. That's because most Americans don't directly compete with illegal immigrants for jobs."
In fact, many people think that if Illegal Immigrants left America the economy would stall.
When asked the question Overall what is the effect of Immigrants, they point out that there are both positive and negative effects. Too much to copy but its all here if you want to take a look. NPR: Q&A: Illegal Immigrants and the U.S. Economy

Most of these negative effects can be tackled by 1. changing immigration laws, so illegal immigrants can become legalized easily, and not have to sneak in, and 2. reducing high school drop outs. In this case Immigrants will pay taxes, and not "steal" low paying jobs that normally high school drops take.

Therefore, one can conclude that the primary reason there is such dislike for Mexicans, is that they are a scapegoat someone we can blame our problems on, when we could fix these problems.
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Old 02-08-2008, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,176,004 times
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Quote:
There is nothing wrong with Mexicans, Asians, and Hindus, and "third-worlders", why do we have a greater right to the liberties that America provides than legal immigrants do (note the legal part of the sentence).
Agreed that there is nothing wrong with legal immigrants, but your question is flawed. As far as I know, legal immigrants have the same rights and liberties as citizens, save the right to vote.
Quote:
NPR writes answering the question What is the impact of illegal immigration on wages in the U.S. "Well, for an individual, it depends on where you are, what kind of work you do and whether you have skills that illegal immigrants don't. But overall, illegal immigrants don't have a big impact on U.S. wage rates.
This may be all well and good for some office worker, but the laborers in this country are the ones MOST adversely effected, and that effect has been catastrophic. I know this is true because I am one of them.
Quote:
Therefore, one can conclude that the primary reason there is such dislike for Mexicans, is that they are a scapegoat someone we can blame our problems on, when we could fix these problems.
One can conclude that, but their conclusion is absolutely wrong. What are you going to tell me, a 50 year old man, who's been a construction worker all his adult life? Go back to school? I graduated from high school, went to college for a time, and started working in the construction trades over 30 years ago. It's MY income that has been cut by 40% in the last generation, it's MY family that has suffered as a result. Is this all just OK by you, that Americans be driven into poverty for the benefit of people with no legal right to be here??
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:22 PM
 
83 posts, read 248,838 times
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Going back to the question at hand, though, do you think that an immigrant who is here LEGALLY should be deported for flying the Mexican flag above the American flag?
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,043,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kweens View Post
Going back to the question at hand, though, do you think that an immigrant who is here LEGALLY should be deported for flying the Mexican flag above the American flag?
Deported? No, I'd say that's a little extreme. But I'm all for enforcing civil penalties against him as it IS against the law.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:20 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kealariser View Post
To refute something because "you" (most posters) say that in other countries worst things happen is flawed. We should not strive to be the "best" nation of all nations, but the "best" nation that we can be. Also, as a side point, to say all illegal immigrants don't bother adapting to our culture in many cases mistaken. If we continue to stereotype, no progress will be made.

There is nothing wrong with Mexicans, Asians, and Hindus, and "third-worlders", why do we have a greater right to the liberties that America provides than legal immigrants do (note the legal part of the sentence). As for illegal immigrants, changes in law should be made. But to induce resentful feelings towards them does no good.
.
Your point is well-meaning, but simplistic. You don't want us comparing ourselves to any other "worse" nation. Yet ALL judgements of "good or bad" rely for their very definition, on comparisons. How do you know it's a "warm day" unless you've seen a COLD one? How do we know we "need improvement" unless there is a standard of comparison? You want us to be the "best nation we can be"...Fair enough, but how do you know we aren't, already?

Just for the sake of this discussion, Kealariser, lets take any hypothetical "new nation". Found it from 'scratch', on a principle of "All Men are Created Equal". Then proceed to POPULATE your new nation with people from every end of the earth. Bring them in, requiring NOTHING of them except that they "show up"--the poorer and the more destitute, the better. Make NO distinctions on them...no race, no color, no religion is required...ALL are welcome. Remind them that here, they are FREE, with very few restrictions.

Going ON with our hypothetical society, proceed to let the people work out their OWN shortcomings. Let them correct such outrages as slavery, segregation, etc. As you enter modern times, allow your "hypothetical" population to enjoy ever-increasing freedoms, ever more finely-defined 'rights', but ever DECREASING responsibilities, until finally, you arrive at the present day.

You NOW have (in our hypothetical story) a nation of 300 Million, united by NOTHING AT ALL except a voluntarily-assumed, secular, liberal culture. But even THAT isn't "free" enough. You've taken further steps to NOW ensure that even the bonds of this "voluntary" culture aren't mandatory. You have a population with virtually NO requirements, or duties--no loyalty required, no military service, no society-wide agreement or consensus of ANY kind is a "must". Astoundingly, you've managed to reach the point NOW that even citizenship is "optional"...it's still OK, of course, but not a "big deal". 15 or 20 Million of your population don't even HAVE their citizenship, but that's OK...THey have rights anyway. They face no realistic threat of any penalty, and there is practically no incentive for them NOT to continue what they're doing, with millions of their fellow illegals to follow, on into the future. So "cocky" have they become, they have NO sense whatsoever of any gratitude, but instead boldly and loudly complain of various "rights" that they don't have, but simply DEMAND they be GIVEN...just BECAUSE !!

At this point, I assume you realize you MIGHT be encountering some pretty serious problems in your "hypothetical country". You've pretty well created a situation in which the citizens have almost NO advantage over the Non-citizens--- nor any way, apparently, to keep them from CONTINUING to come here for as long as THEY want. Apparently, what your CITIZENS want just isn't important.

What is the RESULT of all this social tension, and this inherently "touchy", explosive, hot-button situation? Perhaps war? Violence? Ethnic Cleansing? Interracial murder and mayhem? Nope, you can relax. Despite ALL the aforementioned "assaults" upon your citizens' sovereignty, about the WORST that has resulted is a little griping---a few "hotheads" calling for some kind of a"war"....perhaps a few rude and ignorant racist comments, a little unkindness here and there, and a few frustrated folks venting on an internet forum (like THIS one)...That's ALL.

What MIGHT HAVE EASILY have been the cause of a bloody, violent 'meltdown', is SO FAR at least, just mainly a bit of unkindness and grumbling.

Seems to ME, Kealariser, that maybe this REALLY IS the "Best Nation We Could Possibly Be", after all. I know that, in MANY places, the situation would have been dealt with in FAR MORE direct fashion. Perhaps it's not American "churlishness" that's remarkable, after all--perhaps what's remarkable is the PATIENCE of the average American citizen. Admittedly, there are a few more 'tranquil' nations... but how's their track record on accepting the diverse millions of the world? How's their stance on requiring NO assimilation, on the part of any newcomer to their society?

In FACT, Kealriser, how do you KNOW this ISN'T the "best nation possible", in view of what we've tried to accomplish? Is it possible you're holding us accountable to a "standard" that WE OURSELVES invented, and to which only WE are subject?
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,640,026 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
Deported? No, I'd say that's a little extreme. But I'm all for enforcing civil penalties against him as it IS against the law.
I have to agree there.

Now; if an illegal immigrant pulled that stunt---------time for the ICE men (and women)!
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
29 posts, read 105,605 times
Reputation: 43
How about we take a battallion or two of battle-hardened Marines, fresh from Iraq / Afghanistan, confine them to a base somewhere in the Southwestern US---no off-base passes, no cold beer , no hot women---get them good and PO'd. Now let them invade Mexico and we take the country as a spoil of war. The Mexicans are now all Americans (what they want in the first place), all the corporations that ran to Mexico during NAFTA are back on American soil, paying American taxes, we carve the country up into 6 or 8 more states, more tourist dollars, more oil and other natural resources, the southern border has been shrunk immensly, no more illegal immigration.

Although I posted this as pure sarcasm, could it work?
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