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Old 01-31-2008, 08:59 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,049,531 times
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Monica, I am guessing your post stems from abstract concepts there in Norwood Ohio, and that you are not a taxpayer. Here in Los Angeles, it's a little different. With 300 illegals entering my locale daily, taxpayers fund the bend-over backwards accommodation of illegals within our so-called sanctuary city, wherein police are constrained from even asking legal status of apprehended criminals. This also is a euphemism for robbing Peter to pay Paul, (us being Peter) and the neverending upward spiral of costs to pay for illegals is dumped on the taxpayers in addition to normal civic costs. L.A. remains an expensive city to live in to begin with. Because of the strain of paying for services for illegals, services which most citizens will never get by the by, L.A. now has 20% middle class population, compared with 50% in most all other U.S.cities.

Since I live in a moderate income area with immigrants both legal and illegal, my observations are first hand and relevant. Legal immigrants are decent people: illegals here in L.A. are probably the meanest folks I've ever encountered, whether domestically or abroad. They despise anyone not from their "home country," are misogynistic, undercut wages by being paid under the table, trash any neighborhood they inhabit, incubate gangs as knee-jerk vendetta thinking, are deliberately cruel, and go on breaking laws here without cessation because they think they got away with a biggie getting in.

I've had my cars totalled by illegals (verified by police) who were driving without licenses, been spat on by them as I walk by (I'm a middle-aged woman), and been overpowered by them at hospitals- my ambulance drivers for one of those wrecks was calling frantically to find an open E.R.- so many have closed from illegals using them for non-emergencies, with concomitant non-payments. Illegals have shot through the fence at my nice dogs, and vandalize property around here endlessly.

Illegals badly affect the quality of life for the non-rich in my city. The myth of the illegal as you state it is just that here: a total myth. The reality of illegals is very, very different, you'd know that were you to live with them as opposed to seeing day laborers from afar. A better metaphor than the one that applies to Ellis Island's legal refugees a hundred years ago (wherein they has to prove sponsorship, and no services paid for by poor and middle income citizens were delegated to same) would be think of illegals this way: your house is broken into, your possessions are gone and you're beaten up by the robber. Now you have to pay for him for his lifestyle with your stuff by your taxes! Robbers only want "a better life." Breaking the law to get it is EXACTLY the same.
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,591,514 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica Ewing View Post
Immigrants: They are people first
God created and loved.
These are the things we in this country take for granted.
We need to promote peace, justice and respect for our immigrant brothers and sisters. Who are in search for a better life.
Let those, in search of a better life, in the United States, do so legally.

If they come here legally, they are welcome to partake and participate in all that makes this country great.

If they do not come here legally, they are criminals and should be treated as same.
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:58 AM
 
1,861 posts, read 2,983,817 times
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Even from way up here in Massachusetts, I've followed the illegal problem for a decade, and I know what havoc they wreak. And, it just gets worse and worse.

In order to save our country from becoming like Mexico - the rich, and the rest of us poor servants to the corporations - we have to STOP this "silent" invasion so that we don't become a cesspool like Mexico.

I'm sorry they can't have a "better life", but WE are the ones who are paying for it, and we want to pay for our OWN people to have a better life, if need be. Not someone who has no right being here in the first place.

P.S. They have terrible arrogant, demanding attitudes, too, like we owe them a living. They are their own worst enemy.
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:15 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,987,778 times
Reputation: 47491
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlrosen View Post
the inscription on the statue of liberty reads:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
tired and poor is ok, some restrictions apply
murderers and rapists they get tired and poor too no?
send these -- didn't say let em run down the customs agent and bring dope
lets go with legal immigration ok?
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:30 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
836 posts, read 2,944,673 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica Ewing View Post
Immigrants:
Immigrants: They are people first
God created and loved.
They have earnest lives and tragic deaths. How do we treat the undocumented workers in our midst?
With the same compassion and respect we afford other human beings. Some are here to work and return to their home countries, as many do throughout the world. But, if we are fortunate, they will choose to stay, raise their children and make the same contributions all past generations of immigrants have. The presence of brother and sisters from different cultures should be celebrated as a gift. When we enrich each other with our diversity, we become what God envisioned when he told the Israelites: "You too must befriend the alien, for you were once aliens yourselves." Human respect for our fellow man is a much more uplifting human response to immigrants. Immigrants simply want to survive and provide a future for their families. It is so limited and tortuous now that the only solution for so many long-suffering good people who would rather be legal is to become illegal for the sake of there families survival. We need to reestablish hope instead of fear that has become their primary emotion. We need to respect their rich culture and active faith. I will continue to support their human rights. This country holds the promise of a better way of life for most. What impresses me most, in the Hispanic population is their willingness to work hard for the money that they earn. The pride that they demonstrate in the fact that there families come before all else.
Do you have indoor plumbing?
Do you have running water?
Does your home consist of one room with a dirt floor?
Did you get a chance to complete elementary school?
Do you make more than $4.57 a day?
These are the things we in this country take for granted.
We need to promote peace, justice and respect for our immigrant brothers and sisters. Who are in search for a better life.
This is just my opinion..
I agree god created everyone equal.. I think we can all agree with that.. but God has nothing to do with someone being illegal in this country. I am not so sure the Hispanics have had a very hard life...Mexico is a very large country they have other places they could move to rather than come here..I do believe they need to fix their own country instead of invading ours! They just come here for a free ride! Now I know that NOT all Illegals are from the Southern part of North America. but we do have 12 million Illegal Mexicans in this country...

I have no compassion for someone who sneaks in to this country and thinks everything should be handed to them on a silver platter! Coming to this country, working and then going back is VERY different from coming here Illegally and disobeying our laws!
They come to the US..They demand that we educate their surplus citizens, give those citizens food stamps, deliver their babies, provide them with doctors and hospital beds (who pays for it.. we do!), and police their neighborhoods, the Mexican government also expects us to help preserve their loyalty to Mexico. What about them getting a FAKE Social Security card, FAKE drivers license and a car but they don't get any Insurance, they end up having accidents and who ends up paying for it.. we do. They ride around in these vehicles 10 people to a car none of them buckled up and the cops just ride by them like they didn't even see them, lets not forget about the ones who has 5 children riding with them unbuckled and climbing all over the car, the police does nothing about.. But if they catch us citizens doing this we get ticketed ad lectured for it.. How is this right? Shouldn't they obey the laws too? They rent these 2 bedroom homes or hotel rooms and have 30 families live in it. They refuse to get Legalized, they refuse to learn English, they eat up our taxes, they bring diseases and drugs in to our country, commit rapes and murders, most are in gangs..And how is it they can own stores and restaurants all over the place and when a citizen of the US tries to start a business they have to go through all kinds of legal stuff..how is this fair to US Americans? Over the past few months I have noticed in the Grocery stores and other places under our wording is Spanish so the ones who refuse to learn English can read.. How ridiculous is this? What about the other countries what makes Hispanics so special..this is very unfair for other countries, I think if you going to add a different languages under ours well then why not add them ALL from every country! Oh and don't forget even though they are Illegal our Government is allowing them to Vote..How is this right.. If your NOT a legal Citizen of the United States you are NOT legal to vote!!

I understand we built this country on Immigration BUT Our Ancestors DID NOT come to America Illegally! Prior to 1882 there were no restrictions on US entry.All immigration was legal! If your ancestors came before 1882, they came here legally because there were simply no restrictions. From 1882 until 1921 the only people who were restricted from entering the US were Chinese citizens.. LAWS have since changed If you come into the United States of America without Legal Documentation then you are Illegal this now makes you a Criminal!

You can continue to support human rights, thats your choice. But I think you should remember when an Illegal comes into this country and murders someone or rapes a young woman or a young girl...or sells drugs to our children on the street.. or convinces our American children they should join a gang.. That YOUR supporting this!!!!!
You wrote: Do you have indoor plumbing? Do you have running water?Does your home consist of one room with a dirt floor? Did you get a chance to complete elementary school?Do you make more than $4.57 a day?
First of all this is their choice of living..(actually there are some Americans here in the US that lives this way still.. there are some places in VA, TN, WV, NC and KY and other states that lives without running water or electricity.. because they choose too! Let's not forget about the Amish they choose to live without electricity and running water..and they also choose not to own vehicles) there are plenty of places in Mexico that doesn't live this way..They also have schools.. if they didn't complete school it is due to their choice. Everyone is given a choice in life and they choose to live how they want. You can't change that. As for the $4.57 a day.. when an Illegal gets a job here in the US most of them make close to the same as they did at home. No one here in the US is going to pay them to work for 10.00 per hour unless they are a legal citizen, they pay Illegals for what they are worth which is usually under them minimum wage pay. Most get paid under the table.....
I have no problem with them If they want to come over here to better their lives,..but they need to make themselves Legal and obey the laws instead of doing what they want! And I also think they are very disrepectfull to us Americans.. just like them hanging the Mexican flag here in the US this is very disrespectful to this country..That would be like us invading Mexico and flying our flag everywhere.. do you think they would respect us for that?.. No!! and their rallies where they say..We are not criminals.. even though they had to swim across the Rio Grande River/Rio Bravo Del Norte and sneak into this country.. and they are Undocumented! and screaming That the American people owe them.. I have heard many of them say that they are here to take what was once theirs back.. What the hell do we owe them is what I would like to know? President Bush has done nothing but made a mess of this Country allowing these Illegals in...I really hope someone gets in there and cleans it up.. but I feel its only going to get worse!
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:37 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,709,466 times
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Your heart is good, Monica, and so are your intentions. Unfortunately, in our "PC" world today, you, like most of us, have kept your humanity but somehow managed to lose your objectivity--(something that's EXTREMELY easy to do nowadays).

It's true that illegals are "humans"---all of us are. It's also true that they want a "better life"...no argument there. As a matter of fact, I've known dozens of illegals for decades now, and I can guarantee you that most are very nice, cheeful, hardworking people. Their outlook is admirable.

The PROBLEM is that this describes most of the human race. MOST people are "good", MOST of them work harder than Americans do, and virtually ALL of them want a "better life". And America (your country, and mine) has done a HUGE and very ADMIRABLE job of "helping out"--and THEN some. We've 'taken in" millions of folks, for decades on end, and askedvery little in return except that they attempt to 'fit in'. A little 'gratitude' was always appreciated, too.....and usually we got it, until recent years.

But now we're in a new world. Our frontiers are 'settled', our job-market is going high-tech, and our resources are being stretched. At the same time, we're told we no longer can expect newcomers to "fit in"---they have a right to 'keep' their culture, we're told. It's not relevant whether we "need" them or not, it's out job to simply ACCOMODATE them, and FIND a way to 'fit them in'. Meanwhile, there's no sign that any of this will ever end. Because it was our "job" to accomodate the world's poor 150 years ago, it will be our "job" forever, into the future. Why? Because we 'agreed to do it', that's why.

Perhaps its time to back off and be more objective. If it's OUR JOB to accomodate Mexico's 'excess population', what, exactly is Mexico's "job'? I think that's a fair question--it shouldn't cause 'hard feelings'. Does Mexico have ANY obligation to its poor-or does it NOT, because it never 'pretended' to be a fair society (because that's OUR job).?

And for the person who quoted the "Statue of Liberty" poem, I'll say the same thing. Society has made a few changes since that was written. If you want to quote THAT as your 'gospel', how about going back to some of the OTHER realities of that time? I think its pretty obvious that, poem or NO poem, a few things have changed since that time. Lets be honest.

America has done an outstanding job of providing for people. Much of its reward has been not a 'thank you", but a snarling demand for "more and more", and a lot of grumbling about how we're a 'selfish' country. I'd be very interested to hear about where the "nice" country is, that America is being compared to. Where is this place that takes in the world's poor and gives them instant status in society, asks nothing from them in return, and finds them all homes and jobs without demanding they 'fit in'? I'd like to go there myself, If I could find out where it is.

Meanwhile, I'll have to settle for America--it's a pretty close 'second', I think..
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:39 AM
 
1,861 posts, read 2,983,817 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunky39 View Post
tired and poor is ok, some restrictions apply
murderers and rapists they get tired and poor too no?
send these -- didn't say let em run down the customs agent and bring dope
lets go with legal immigration ok?
That poem wasn't put on the Statue of Liberty until the 1950's or something. The statue was never meant to stand for everyone coming here en masse. It was a gift from France because of our love of liberty. And, yes, LEGAL immigration is fine - and we are the MOST welcoming of anyone else in the world, so what more do ya want with us?
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,082 posts, read 15,588,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
That poem wasn't put on the Statue of Liberty until the 1950's or something. The statue was never meant to stand for everyone coming here en masse. It was a gift from France because of our love of liberty. And, yes, LEGAL immigration is fine - and we are the MOST welcoming of anyone else in the world, so what more do ya want with us?
The Statue was a gift from France, the Poem "The New Colossus" was written by an American.

Quote:
About the Author
Emma Lazarus

Emma Lazarus, the poetess, is probably best known for her poem associated with the Statue of Liberty. Her poem has become one of the quintessential statements of a U.S. ideal of open immigration. Her poem "The New Colossus" stands as a stirring statement of the American ethos.

Emma Lazarus was born to Moses and Esther Nathan Lazarus in New York City on July 22, 1849. Emma grew up in a prominent fourth generation Jewish family, one of the oldest in New York City. She was well educated and by age 25 was a published poet and author.

She wrote "The New Colossus" in 1883 for an art auction "in Aid of the Bartholdi Pedestal Fund." While France had provided the statue itself, American fundraising efforts like these paid for the Statue of Liberty's pedestal. In 1903, sixteen years after her death, Lazarus' sonnet was engraved on a plaque and placed in the pedestal as a memorial
Statue of Liberty poem provided by www.legallanguage.com
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Old 01-31-2008, 11:07 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,709,466 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
That poem wasn't put on the Statue of Liberty until the 1950's or something. The statue was never meant to stand for everyone coming here en masse. It was a gift from France because of our love of liberty. And, yes, LEGAL immigration is fine - and we are the MOST welcoming of anyone else in the world, so what more do ya want with us?
The poem was written in 1883. It's a wonderful concept. At that time, though, slavery had just ended, and blacks were being lynched regularly in the South. American Indians were decades away from being allowed American citizenshp. Children worked 60-hour weeks, and women wouldn't be able to vote, or sign contracts, for many years.

Total racial segregation was the order of the day, corporal punishment was used in the classroom, and in Delaware, public drunks could be flogged. Most Asians were barred altogether from immigration, and anyone advocating 'organizing' the labor force was likely to be beaten by thugs, killed, or at LEAST lose his job. And there was no welfare, worker's comp, or social security.

Any immigrant who DID manage to get through the 'gate' entered a society which harshly and brutally 'pushed' him to give up his 'foreign ways' and assimilate. Some people even changed their NAMES to avoid the 'stigma' of being 'different'. Sometime their own KIDS were ashamed of their 'weird' accents. Life was tough, rough, and brutal, and there was NO use for 'multiculturalism'...

Wonderful poem, but a few things have changed since it was written.
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Old 01-31-2008, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,858,187 times
Reputation: 3787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunky39 View Post
tired and poor is ok, some restrictions apply
murderers and rapists they get tired and poor too no?
send these -- didn't say let em run down the customs agent and bring dope
lets go with legal immigration ok?
Damn straight there, Bunky39!
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