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Old 01-31-2008, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
21 posts, read 82,353 times
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When people in this country suggest to people, usually foreign or minority, that they should assmilate, I'm always dumbfounded by what is being asked and what that means. What is essentially being asked of those who don't necesarily view themselves as just primarily American citizens? Who is being made to feel comfortable by that assimilation? Why aren't we able to respect the fact that we as humans are both different and complex? Why is a high school concept such as assmilation offered as a way to in fact "remedy" the differences rather than an honest complex investigation and mutual respect amongs those of different heritages and backgrounds? I also ask what is American culture if isn't anything but a combination of "borrowed" traditions and customs (pizza, hip-hop, Washington Redskins,") from other ACTUAL cultures? Is assimilation offered as a simple fix from a simple people?
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:33 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,194,930 times
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Well, depends on what you mean.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect immigrants to learn English and to agree to the legal foundation of day-to-day life. For example, I think that Canadians have made a very foolish mistake to consider allowing Islamic immigrants to use Shariah as an alternative law within their communities. You're practically guaranteeing troubles down the road.

If I immigrated to Germany or Bolivia, I would never expect to NOT learn the language or expectations of citizens within those societies. So why would we expect less of people who move here? We're not asking them to give up their identities, after all.
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, depends on what you mean.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect immigrants to learn English and to agree to the legal foundation of day-to-day life. For example, I think that Canadians have made a very foolish mistake to consider allowing Islamic immigrants to use Shariah as an alternative law within their communities. You're practically guaranteeing troubles down the road.

If I immigrated to Germany or Bolivia, I would never expect to NOT learn the language or expectations of citizens within those societies. So why would we expect less of people who move here? We're not asking them to give up their identities, after all.
As you stated.

If I were to live in Mexico; I would make damn sure to learn Spanish and respect their laws/customs.

In other words; 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'------it is called respect.
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:30 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
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VERY BRIEFLY, as I've been over this a dozen times....

GOOD DIVERSITY---Bring it on--the more the merrier
*New Recipes
*New Music
*New Religions or creeds
*New races, colors, or "combinations" of same
*New versatility in foreign language..
*Interesting combinatons of things, "invented" here..

BAD DIVERSITY---don't want it, don't like it..
*Religious violence or intolerance..
*Sex with underage kiddies or farm animals..
*Cannibalism.
*Women seen as men's 'property"
*Forced marriages-
*Inability to communicate in English...
*Violent street demonstrations..
*Raping a promiscous teenage girl to 'teach her a lesson'
*Eating of dogs or cats
*Police and government agencies seen as one's 'natural enemy"
*Racial prejudice and harrassment

ALL of these things are "cultural values" in some places. In MY culture (which is how I "see" things), some of these are GOOD things, and some are BAD. I want to keep out the BAD things, so I don't believe in total diversity or multiculturalism. I'm willing to 'allow' many things, but not EVERY thing. That means I'm 'excluding' or 'judging' these things. So be it...
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
21 posts, read 82,353 times
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It's funny that some of the same "bad" diversity as you claim has occured right here in the U.S.....Religious violence-slavery, Violent street demonstrations-civil rights, Akron, etc, Raping, Police and government agencies, etc...How is this bad and how does it fall under the umbrella of bad diversity?
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:41 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by townin View Post
When people in this country suggest to people, usually foreign or minority, that they should assmilate, I'm always dumbfounded by what is being asked and what that means. What is essentially being asked of those who don't necesarily view themselves as just primarily American citizens? Who is being made to feel comfortable by that assimilation? Why aren't we able to respect the fact that we as humans are both different and complex? Why is a high school concept such as assmilation offered as a way to in fact "remedy" the differences rather than an honest complex investigation and mutual respect amongs those of different heritages and backgrounds? I also ask what is American culture if isn't anything but a combination of "borrowed" traditions and customs (pizza, hip-hop, Washington Redskins,") from other ACTUAL cultures? Is assimilation offered as a simple fix from a simple people?
I don't know of ANYONE who objects to the existence of Pizza, Hip-Hop, or football. But I ALSO have never heard of, nor can I imagine, any organization, workplace, club, religion, profession, or NATION, which doesn't require SOMETHING of its new members. They're asked to "give up" their former life and "fit in". (It may be as simple as an employer requesting we 'give up' sleeping til noon, or appearing in beachwear, or gossiping on our cell phones all day) ALL human organizations require members to 'asimilate". If you can think of an example of an organization you may join, but not 'conform' to, I'd sincerely like to know its name..
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:52 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by townin View Post
It's funny that some of the same "bad" diversity as you claim has occured right here in the U.S.....Religious violence-slavery, Violent street demonstrations-civil rights, Akron, etc, Raping, Police and government agencies, etc...How is this bad and how does it fall under the umbrella of bad diversity?
Yes, it IS bad diversity--it keeps our police busy, and our jails and hospitals full. But at least we AGREE it's bad, and have laws here to punish "it". What we DON'T need is a new segment of society which refuses to acknowledge "our" laws, because they're seen as "silly". You've mentioned the 'bad' side of the diversity we already HAVE. Not much we can do about that.
But what about abuse of women---much of it isn't illegal. What to do about 'incorporating' that into our culture as "OK"?

What about disrespect for law? (in much of the world, "the law" isn't respected at ALL--it's not fair, and it's not WORTHY of respect). Think it can't happen? I submit to you the "illegal imigration" debacle. Large numbers of our societal leaders have simply chosen to ignore THOSE laws, because they 'feel like it". You don't see that this is a TERRIBLE precedent? WE should all ignore laws we don't like? That's OK, but what if our leaders choose to start ignoring OTHER laws they don't like? (like laws protecting private property--or laws against abusing prisoners)...Could be a real mess. "Respect for Law" is definitely a cultural value I want ALL of us to hang onto. Sorry if this offends some..
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,041,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by townin View Post
When people in this country suggest to people, usually foreign or minority, that they should assmilate, I'm always dumbfounded by what is being asked and what that means. What is essentially being asked of those who don't necesarily view themselves as just primarily American citizens? Who is being made to feel comfortable by that assimilation? Why aren't we able to respect the fact that we as humans are both different and complex? Why is a high school concept such as assmilation offered as a way to in fact "remedy" the differences rather than an honest complex investigation and mutual respect amongs those of different heritages and backgrounds? I also ask what is American culture if isn't anything but a combination of "borrowed" traditions and customs (pizza, hip-hop, Washington Redskins,") from other ACTUAL cultures? Is assimilation offered as a simple fix from a simple people?
So you're saying America doesn't have an ACTUAL culture? Funny, the greatest country in the world doesn't have it's own culture. I've gone rounds with people in the past explaining what American culture is just to have them say my definition isn't good enough for them, so I won't waste my time. Why should people assimilate? Because 2 or more distinctly different cultures in a community is a recipe for disaster. The 2 groups will constantly be fighting for dominance. When you have entire communities who refuse to learn English, hold American values, have no pride in this country (only pride and values from their prior country), and no desire to be an American, that's a problem to me. Having influence and pride for your heritage is fine, I do so myself, but I don't want people turning cities in my country into Mexico or any other country. If that's how I wanted to live, I would move there. If I moved to another country, I would assimilate and become part of it, not expect to live as an American in another country. Do you have a problem with people assimilating?
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Old 01-31-2008, 07:07 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by townin View Post
When people in this country suggest to people, usually foreign or minority, that they should assmilate, I'm always dumbfounded by what is being asked and what that means. What is essentially being asked of those who don't necesarily view themselves as just primarily American citizens? Who is being made to feel comfortable by that assimilation? Why aren't we able to respect the fact that we as humans are both different and complex? Why is a high school concept such as assmilation offered as a way to in fact "remedy" the differences rather than an honest complex investigation and mutual respect amongs those of different heritages and backgrounds? I also ask what is American culture if isn't anything but a combination of "borrowed" traditions and customs (pizza, hip-hop, Washington Redskins,") from other ACTUAL cultures? Is assimilation offered as a simple fix from a simple people?
Being that the USA is the country where everyone wishes to come to, and the population growth here is extremely fast, we can afford to be somewhat choosey about the type of immigrants allowed.

Immigration should be limited to those people who truly wish to become a part of this country, who like and wish to be Americans and who have the desire and ability to assimilate.

And yes there is an American culture -- just as much as any other country has a culture. There are fast foods in Mexico, France, and whatever country but that doesn't mean they don't have a culture either. Food is a very shallow way of seeing culture because if you eat a pizza one night, you didn't become more Italian, nor did you become more Chinese by eating egg rolls the next night.
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Old 01-31-2008, 07:12 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
So you're saying America doesn't have an ACTUAL culture? Funny, the greatest country in the world doesn't have it's own culture.
I'll have to remember that next time I hear of someone in another country complaining how they're getting influenced by too much American culture.

One of the best immigrants I ever met was a guy from India who said all his life he dreamed of becoming an American. He practiced his English language lessons -- carefully focusing on American-English. He watched every American movie he could, every American television show he could and read up on American history and current events. He even changed his religion to Methodist because he figured that was a very American religion.

I think people who never traveled to another country and stayed for some time in one are the ones most likely to believe the USA doesn't have it's own culture. When you're away for a while and return home -- you really feel the culture.
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