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Old 12-30-2015, 08:47 PM
 
11,565 posts, read 5,538,125 times
Reputation: 9900

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Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
I'm not putting the blame solely on the U.S. government. Has anybody else posting here actually lived in Latin America? I have, and trust me, I don't romanticize it. There's a lot of corruption down there. A lot of bad decision making. The U.S. has a role in Latin America's situation too. How much? I don't know. But some.

I just think that practically, if we're oriented towards results, controlling immigration, then U.S. economic policy has to be part of the solution. I mean, put yourself in the other guy's shoes. If you are working for 55 cents an hour in your town, you're going to leave, and you're not going to care if you're in that position because your mayor is corrupt, and the governor, President of your country, your whole society, etc. Frankly, you're not going to care whose fault it is. All these arguments sound high and mighty on this forum, but the bottom line is, economics are driving the migration. If you're a doctor, you try to treat the cause, not the symptoms.

Speak for yourself. I would never sneak across a border or overstay a visa. My conscience would bother me if I did such a thing.

When I was right out of college, I struggled to pay the rent due to the economy being so bad and jobs being scarce. If someone had told me, for example, that if I sneaked into Canada I could get a good job easily, my answer would have been a resounding "NO".

If other immigrants are able to adhere to our immigration laws and patiently await their turn to come here (some wait as long as 10 years), then Latin Americans can do so also. We, as a nation, are more than generous when it comes to legal immigration---especially for those south of the border.

 
Old 12-30-2015, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 438,167 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Speak for yourself. I would never sneak across a border or overstay a visa. My conscience would bother me if I did such a thing.

When I was right out of college, I struggled to pay the rent due to the economy being so bad and jobs being scarce. If someone had told me, for example, that if I sneaked into Canada I could get a good job easily, my answer would have been a resounding "NO".

If other immigrants are able to adhere to our immigration laws and patiently await their turn to come here (some wait as long as 10 years), then Latin Americans can do so also. We, as a nation, are more than generous when it comes to legal immigration---especially for those south of the border.
OK, you've convinced me!

Now maybe you can do something for your country!

Go to Juarez, Mexico, just over the border from El Paso. You don't need a visa unless you stay more than 90 days. Go undercover in a maquiladora where people are working for 55 cents an hour for a U.S. firm. Make connections with a coyote bringing people over the border illegally. Talk to the potential border-crossers and explain to them what a great deal they've got in Mexico, and not to come to the United States.

Good luck!

Maybe if you take a picture of Donald Trump with you, the force of his personality will carry the day.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 08:58 PM
 
11,565 posts, read 5,538,125 times
Reputation: 9900
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
OK, you've convinced me!

Now maybe you can do something for your country!

Go to Juarez, Mexico, just over the border from El Paso. You don't need a visa unless you stay more than 90 days. Go undercover in a maquiladora where people are working for 55 cents an hour for a U.S. firm. Make connections with a coyote bringing people over the border illegally. Talk to the potential border-crossers and explain to them what a great deal they've got in Mexico, and not to come to the United States.

Good luck!

Maybe if you take a picture of Donald Trump with you, the force of his personality will carry the day.


If they don't like making 55 cents an hour, then it's up to them to work to change their country for the better. Lots of countries are in far, far worse shape than Mexico. I have no sympathy for illegals.

Illegal immigration is a slap in the face to those who adhered to our immigration laws and waited patiently for their turn to come here. This bears repeating, apparently.

Besides, I just told you there is no way that I would sneak into another country. It would bother my conscience way too much.

We, as a nation, owe illegals absolutely nothing. Period.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 438,167 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
If they don't like making 55 cents an hour, then it's up to them to work to change their country for the better. Lots of countries are in far, far worse shape than Mexico. I have no sympathy for illegals.

Illegal immigration is a slap in the face to those who adhered to our immigration laws and waited patiently for their turn to come here. This bears repeating, apparently.

Besides, I just told you there is no way that I would sneak into another country. It would bother my conscience way too much.

We, as a nation, owe illegals absolutely nothing. Period.
Bro!

You have got the fire!

You are so... so... right!

I'm just spluttering into my coffee here, thinking that anybody wouldn't listen to you!

Don't they get it? It's all about respect, and patience, and honor! What is wrong with them?

Go!

Go now!

Explain to those workers I was telling you about!

I'm sure they'll listen to you and stop crossing the border!

And if you run into one or two that are obstinate, just show them a Donald Trump video!

That will convince them to stay, if nothing else will!

I'll bet they'll start pulling quarters out of their wallets to pay for the wall!
 
Old 12-30-2015, 09:10 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,312,337 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
If they don't like making 55 cents an hour, then it's up to them to work to change their country for the better. Lots of countries are in far, far worse shape than Mexico. I have no sympathy for illegals.

Illegal immigration is a slap in the face to those who adhered to our immigration laws and waited patiently for their turn to come here. This bears repeating, apparently.

Besides, I just told you there is no way that I would sneak into another country. It would bother my conscience way too much.

We, as a nation, owe illegals absolutely nothing. Period.
Agreed and HOW!

Tho I'm getting the feeling that some of the illegal alien fans are growing scared about Trump actually winning and actually ordering deportations of ANY illegal "contacted" by LE.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 438,167 times
Reputation: 1099
OK, I've decided to go south of the border and help you guys.

I've been working on my rap.

Tips? Comments?

"Dear Mr. Border Crosser,

I don't care that you make 55 cents an hour working for a multi-billion dollar U.S. firm. Don't you get it? Illegal immigration is a slap in the face to those who adhered to U.S. immigration laws and waited patiently for their turn to go there. Evidently, that bears repeating, because you seem to have forgotten. I'm sure now that I have explained things to you, you will decide not to go to the United States!

And as if you needed another reason not to go, if you luck into a $10 an hour job in the U.S., which is twenty times what you make now, you run the risk of deportation at any time if law enforcement contacts you. Would it really be worth working in the U.S. for three months to make what you would make in 5 years in Mexico, if you know they're only going to send you back in the end?

I used to think that 'real life' considerations like wages in Mexico and the U.S. drove emigration. But I had some very well-meaning people explain to me that it was just a complete lack of respect for immigration laws that were the problem. And the people who told me that were completely divorced from real life and nevertheless they took themselves seriously, so you need to take them seriously too. Do you really want to make fun of them? I think you should know that crossing the border will be like a slap in the face to them, and you really really really shouldn't do it if you want them to keep thinking that you are a good person.

Also, this tin cup I have is for donations to pay for the wall. Most people are giving a quarter, but you can give more if you want. Thank you very much."
 
Old 12-30-2015, 09:53 PM
 
11,565 posts, read 5,538,125 times
Reputation: 9900
I'm done with you. As a parting note---no, I don't care what an illegal alien's life is like. I don't care where in the world they come from. Nor do I care if they got here by sneaking across a border or overstaying a visa. They all have one thing in common and that is this---they have no business being here and need to leave.

My concerns are for Americans who have lost their livelihoods due to illegal immigration. In addition, my concerns are for Americans who have seen their neighborhoods and schools destroyed by illegal immigration. After all, charity starts at home. Period.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 438,167 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
I'm done with you. As a parting note---no, I don't care what an illegal alien's life is like. I don't care where in the world they come from. Nor do I care if they got here by sneaking across a border or overstaying a visa. They all have one thing in common and that is this---they have no business being here and need to leave.

My concerns are for Americans who have lost their livelihoods due to illegal immigration. In addition, my concerns are for Americans who have seen their neighborhoods and schools destroyed by illegal immigration. After all, charity starts at home. Period.
Well, I don't mean to belittle your concerns, but I think they need to address the real issues.

The bottom line is, undocumented aliens or illegal aliens as you prefer to call them decide whether or not to come here. You can wag your finger in their faces all you want, but in the end they take the decision of whether or not to risk it all to come here. It happens in their heads, whether it's legal, illegal, or whatever. So those are the people you have to convince.

Call me crazy, but I don't think they care about your rhetoric, at all. They probably can't read or understand it, and they would probably tune it out if they could. They do, on the other hand, understand that they make very little money and they know where they can make more. It's a very simple thought process. If you support a solution that doesn't address economic issues, it's destined to fail.

Ignoring the economic situation in Mexico contributes directly, as in a 1:1 straight as an arrow line, to the demographic changes in communities that you claim distress you so much. You want a solution that keeps people in Mexico making 55 cents an hour and not migrating to the U.S.. That solution does not exist, no matter how much you want it. You either have to start caring about what happens to people in Mexico or stop pretending that you care about what happens to American communities, because the two are unshakeably, unbreakably related.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:08 PM
 
16,387 posts, read 6,127,689 times
Reputation: 6931
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
Well, I don't mean to belittle your concerns, but I think they need to address the real issues.

The bottom line is, undocumented aliens or illegal aliens as you prefer to call them decide whether or not to come here. You can wag your finger in their faces all you want, but in the end they take the decision of whether or not to risk it all to come here. It happens in their heads, whether it's legal, illegal, or whatever. So those are the people you have to convince.

Call me crazy, but I don't think they care about your rhetoric, at all. They probably can't read or understand it, and they would probably tune it out if they could. They do, on the other hand, understand that they make very little money and they know where they can make more. It's a very simple thought process. If you support a solution that doesn't address economic issues, it's destined to fail.

Ignoring the economic situation in Mexico contributes directly, as in a 1:1 straight as an arrow line, to the demographic changes in communities that you claim distress you so much. You want a solution that keeps people in Mexico making 55 cents an hour and not migrating to the U.S.. That solution does not exist, no matter how much you want it. You either have to start caring about what happens to people in Mexico or stop pretending that you care about what happens to American communities, because the two are unshakeably, unbreakably related.

Amen, and if you wish to stop any problem, you must address its root cause, or your efforts to stop it will fail every single time.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:26 PM
 
11,565 posts, read 5,538,125 times
Reputation: 9900
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Amen, and if you wish to stop any problem, you must address its root cause, or your efforts to stop it will fail every single time.
Build the wall, make E-verify the law of the land and run everybody in the work force through it to weed out those 8 million no-match SSNs. Close the loophole in the law that says it's okay if someone uses your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it. Do something to end the whole anchor baby/birth tourism fiasco. Make sure that illegals can't tap into any welfare programs (and they do tap into them once they birth an anchor baby). Would you stay someplace if you can't find work or access any welfare freebies?

Of course illegals don't care about "the rhetoric". After all, they lack a moral compass.

As for addressing "its root cause" --- don't vote for any politicians who are pro-amnesty, pro-sanctuary cities and beholden to their mega-rich donors and put said donors ahead of their constituents.
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