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Old 12-30-2015, 10:54 PM
 
16,304 posts, read 6,084,128 times
Reputation: 6879

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Build the wall, make E-verify the law of the land and run everybody in the work force through it to weed out those 8 million no-match SSNs. Close the loophole in the law that says it's okay if someone uses your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it. Do something to end the whole anchor baby/birth tourism fiasco. Make sure that illegals can't tap into any welfare programs (and they do tap into them once they birth an anchor baby). Would you stay someplace if you can't find work or access any welfare freebies?

.

and they will work under the table, just as millions, legal and illegal, always have. I am talking the cash or non payroll check (personal check, money order) type of jobs. The type people pick up workers at 6 am in front of a Home Depot provide.




I like e verify, but it largely insures those likely to follow the law do so, and it does zip for the HD hiring crowd.

 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:18 PM
 
11,476 posts, read 5,504,092 times
Reputation: 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
and they will work under the table, just as millions, legal and illegal, always have. I am talking the cash or non payroll check (personal check, money order) type of jobs. The type people pick up workers at 6 am in front of a Home Depot provide.




I like e verify, but it largely insures those likely to follow the law do so, and it does zip for the HD hiring crowd.
So what? Working under the table is nothing new. When employers are caught doing it, they need to be punished. When workers do it day after day, they need to get hit with tax evasion charges. When Obama took office, he stopped all ICE business raids. Those raids need to happen again.

Anyone who is foolish enough to pick up strangers looking for work, needs to know the risks involved. It amazes me that those same people would never pick up a hitchhiker but have no problems picking up a stranger in front of 7-Eleven or Home Depot.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 11:24 PM
 
16,304 posts, read 6,084,128 times
Reputation: 6879
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
So what? Working under the table is nothing new. When employers are caught doing it, they need to be punished. When workers do it day after day, they need to get hit with tax evasion charges. When Obama took office, he stopped all ICE business raids. Those raids need to happen again.

Anyone who is foolish enough to pick up strangers looking for work, needs to know the risks involved. It amazes me that those same people would never pick up a hitchhiker but have no problems picking up a stranger in front of 7-Eleven or Home Depot.

And that will keep the flow of all seeking under the table work going.


E verify is not going to make a huge dent in solving anything. It is conceptually sound, but real life ineffective, as under the counter is the true problem.
 
Old 12-31-2015, 12:12 AM
 
11,476 posts, read 5,504,092 times
Reputation: 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
And that will keep the flow of all seeking under the table work going.


E verify is not going to make a huge dent in solving anything. It is conceptually sound, but real life ineffective, as under the counter is the true problem.
There are 8 million no-match SSNs in the work force. If they all are weeded out, they all won't be able to find work in the underground economy. Sure, some will. No one is saying that won't happen but not all 8 million no-matches will find employment.

You can choose to have a defeatist attitude when it comes to illegals, that's your choice. I, however, want something better for my descendants. That's all I have to say to you.
 
Old 12-31-2015, 12:45 AM
 
16,304 posts, read 6,084,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post


. I, however, want something better for my descendants. .
Mine are all highly educated and have a great start on superb careers.
 
Old 12-31-2015, 06:20 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
And that will keep the flow of all seeking under the table work going.


E verify is not going to make a huge dent in solving anything. It is conceptually sound, but real life ineffective, as under the counter is the true problem.
Just ENFORCE our present laws against illegal aliens and; MOST leave the US like yesterday.
 
Old 12-31-2015, 07:27 AM
 
31,463 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
There are 8 million no-match SSNs in the work force. If they all are weeded out, they all won't be able to find work in the underground economy. Sure, some will. No one is saying that won't happen but not all 8 million no-matches will find employment.

You can choose to have a defeatist attitude when it comes to illegals, that's your choice. I, however, want something better for my descendants. That's all I have to say to you.

The one you are replying to has already exposed his pro-illegal position aka amnesty so there is no point in trying to convince him that e-verify will make a dent in illegal immigration. Has he ever offered any real solution to illegal immigration other than the defeatist attitude? As you said, many employers will not hire under the table if e-verify is in place especially if the penalty for not running potential hires through e-verify is very steep. You are barking at the moon here trying to get any pro-illegal to come up with or to agree with any solutions posed because they want illegals to remain here. They either hire them are bleeding heart liberals or have ethnic ties to them. I know that the latter is the case here.
 
Old 12-31-2015, 07:33 AM
 
31,463 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
OK, you've convinced me!

Now maybe you can do something for your country!

Go to Juarez, Mexico, just over the border from El Paso. You don't need a visa unless you stay more than 90 days. Go undercover in a maquiladora where people are working for 55 cents an hour for a U.S. firm. Make connections with a coyote bringing people over the border illegally. Talk to the potential border-crossers and explain to them what a great deal they've got in Mexico, and not to come to the United States.

Good luck!

Maybe if you take a picture of Donald Trump with you, the force of his personality will carry the day.
People with no morals, scruples and think that laws don't apply to them will never be convinced not to break the law for their own selfish gain. They don't care how their law breaking affects their victims either. If they don't have a great deal in Mexico where they hold citizenship in then they need to fight for change in Mexico instead of blaming our country for their woes and selfishly harming our own citizens by coming here illegally. As I already pointed out Mexicans and those from other Latino countries already hold the highest quotas for legal immigration into our country. Do they think that all of their needy citizens should be able to come here? What about the rest of the world's needy or don't they count? We have annual quotas for legal immigration for good reasons. Do you not understand why? We cannot be the flop house and employment agency to the whole world's poor citizens. There are and should be limits for the obvious reasons.
 
Old 12-31-2015, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 435,593 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
People with no morals, scruples and think that laws don't apply to them will never be convinced not to break the law for their own selfish gain. They don't care how their law breaking affects their victims either. If they don't have a great deal in Mexico where they hold citizenship in then they need to fight for change in Mexico instead of blaming our country for their woes and selfishly harming our own citizens by coming here illegally. As I already pointed out Mexicans and those from other Latino countries already hold the highest quotas for legal immigration into our country. Do they think that all of their needy citizens should be able to come here? What about the rest of the world's needy or don't they count? We have annual quotas for legal immigration for good reasons. Do you not understand why? We cannot be the flop house and employment agency to the whole world's poor citizens. There are and should be limits for the obvious reasons.
It's interesting that not once have you addressed the issue of NAFTA and Maquiladoras that I brought up. U.S. firms, multi-billion dollar firms, have relocated just across the border and are paying Mexican workers 55 cents an hour to produce goods that YOU buy. Then some poor sap tries to cross the border, and according to you and others on this thread he "lacks a moral compass".

Have you looked in a mirror lately?

Excuse me for being blunt, but now that you've mentioned world citizens, I think you could throw darts at a map of the world, stick a pin in 1,000 random street addresses, tap those people on the shoulder and ask them, "Who lacks a moral compass, the guy crossing a border illegally trying to escape a life of working for 55 cents an hour for multi-billion dollar U.S. firms, or the guy living a middle class life north of the border who is happy to buy cheap goods based on slave labor and who doesn't give a rat's patootie about the lives of the people producing those goods for him?" and you'll find out very quickly who, "lacks a moral compass." Go run to your bathroom now and see if there's a mirror.

But apart from caring about other people, which you should, your plan won't work. It doesn't address the problem. In life, you have to address problems on their terms, not your own. Example 1: You have an abcessed tooth, but you're terrified of the dentist. You either live with the pain or go to the dentist. A solution where the pain goes away, but you don't have to go to the dentist doesn't exist. Example 2: You don't like to pay taxes, but you don't like to go to jail either. You either pay taxes or you go to jail. A solution where you don't pay taxes and don't go to jail doesn't exist. There are millions of similar examples. You are looking for a solution to the immigration problem which doesn't address the economic disparity between Latin America and the United States. That solution doesn't exist. I don't care how many rocks you turn over or how many demagogues you listen to, the situation is what it is. You don't decide who crosses the border, and neither do I. The border crossers do. And I think it's clear what's making them cross: money. If you build a wall, they will tunnel under it. They already are. Listening to Donald Trump makes you feel righteous, but it doesn't solve anything. Nobody in the world except a slice of the Republican electorate takes Donald Trump seriously, and certainly not potential border crossers. "OK, Senor Trump. Build a wall and we'll stay on this side!" Yeah, right.

So, solve the problem on it's terms, not your own. And stop throwing around terms like "no moral compass" because (maybe you'll have to trust me on this one) most people don't look at it the way you do.
 
Old 12-31-2015, 10:04 AM
 
4,663 posts, read 3,242,386 times
Reputation: 2806
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
Wrong!

I've seen neighborhoods that were traditionally working class and middle class become devastated by illegal immigration. Are you really unaware that this is happening?

It happened in my neighborhood so I have first hand experience. And, yes, my neighborhood was once a solid working and middle class community with good schools and low crime. Read my previous response(post #69) to you on this issue. I went into detail as to how this occurs. Oh, and btw, my neighborhood is in the suburbs.
We are speaking in generalities, so I dint know how I am wrong when it's my anecdotal data against yours. I have not personally seen that problem, there are no flophouses or anchor babies crowding the schools where i live, I have not lost my job to illegals, in my experience they bring diversity , I can see how they can depress wages for low skill labor i am sympathetic to that but it doesn't affect me, I also yet to see any data showing that illegals commit crimes at a higher rate than American citizens of the same socioeconomic level.
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