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Old 12-30-2015, 10:56 AM
 
4,673 posts, read 3,249,657 times
Reputation: 2813

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
illegals destroying entire neighborhoods by creating flophouses, which escalates into schools going downhill and crime going up. When that happens, it isn't just a "small segment of...voters" who are feeling the ill effects.
This only affects a certain socioeconomic strata, I imagine that can only happen in urban low income neighborhoods, or rural areas both of those areas are pretty much spoken for in terms of blue/red.

 
Old 12-30-2015, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 437,046 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
[url=http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/rubio-i-think-american-people-are-going-be-reasonable-11m-illegal-aliens]
Being reasonable is making life so tough for illegals that they will leave on their own.
Bingo.

Which is why they are coming here.

What you say is perfectly correct, except you don't apply your logic generally, only where you pick and choose.

Google "maquiladora" if you're unclear on the concept. We have free trade agreements in place in which an endless stream of tractor trailers carries U.S. parts across the Mexican border where they are assembled in factories where the minimum wage is as low as 55 cents per hours. Come to Arizona and take a look if you don't get it. The goods are shipped back here, and you all buy them in department stores. Anybody complaining about that dynamic? Didn't think so. You're happy with the prices you get from slave labor.

Why would people risk crossing the desert, having their kids raped by coyotes, and so on, if there were any possibility at all of migrating legally? Of course they would prefer to wait in line, maybe camp out for months in line even, and fill out any amount of paperwork, if there were the slightest chance at all that they could migrate legally. Some can immigrate legally, but most can't. I'm an American by birth, married for 15 years to Latina woman, who is now a citizen. When she married me and was not a citizen yet, we were humiliated for two days in a U.S. Embassy south of the border by a snot-nosed kid who tried to poke holes in our story. Of course most Latinos can't come here legally--so what then?

The answer on this forum seems to be, "Tough. It's their problem." Except again, we are part of a financial system that helps create that poverty, and they're aware of that. You people act like you're all that talking about U.S. debt to China, but you think that everybody south of the border is ignorant about how America impacts them. They're poor, not stupid. They get it.

There's a lot of talk on this forum about how this or that policy will play in Florida. What you should be worried about is how this or that policy will play in Juarez. If you really want to stop the flood of immigrants from Latin America to the United States, then support $8 per hour wages in Mexico, and be prepared to pay $10 for your tee-shirts at Walmart, instead of $4.

The wall is not stopping anybody. Look at all the migrants from Asia. They come in boats. Here in Arizona, we have a wall, and it hasn't stopped people or jaguars (real ones) from crossing over from Mexico. If a person or a jaguar sees something on the other side of the fence they want, they're coming over, especially if they're hungry and have been for a long time. People are migratory by nature. If you believe the biologists (I do), we all originated in Africa. We've done a lot of moving around since then. You can pass all the laws you want and call Rush Limbaugh and complain all you want, but until you support some sort of social justice south of the border, you can forget about it working. You might as well tell ducks not to migrate.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 02:11 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,298,901 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
Bingo.

Which is why they are coming here.

What you say is perfectly correct, except you don't apply your logic generally, only where you pick and choose.

Google "maquiladora" if you're unclear on the concept. We have free trade agreements in place in which an endless stream of tractor trailers carries U.S. parts across the Mexican border where they are assembled in factories where the minimum wage is as low as 55 cents per hours. Come to Arizona and take a look if you don't get it. The goods are shipped back here, and you all buy them in department stores. Anybody complaining about that dynamic? Didn't think so. You're happy with the prices you get from slave labor.

Why would people risk crossing the desert, having their kids raped by coyotes, and so on, if there were any possibility at all of migrating legally? Of course they would prefer to wait in line, maybe camp out for months in line even, and fill out any amount of paperwork, if there were the slightest chance at all that they could migrate legally. Some can immigrate legally, but most can't. I'm an American by birth, married for 15 years to Latina woman, who is now a citizen. When she married me and was not a citizen yet, we were humiliated for two days in a U.S. Embassy south of the border by a snot-nosed kid who tried to poke holes in our story. Of course most Latinos can't come here legally--so what then?

The answer on this forum seems to be, "Tough. It's their problem." Except again, we are part of a financial system that helps create that poverty, and they're aware of that. You people act like you're all that talking about U.S. debt to China, but you think that everybody south of the border is ignorant about how America impacts them. They're poor, not stupid. They get it.

There's a lot of talk on this forum about how this or that policy will play in Florida. What you should be worried about is how this or that policy will play in Juarez. If you really want to stop the flood of immigrants from Latin America to the United States, then support $8 per hour wages in Mexico, and be prepared to pay $10 for your tee-shirts at Walmart, instead of $4.

The wall is not stopping anybody. Look at all the migrants from Asia. They come in boats. Here in Arizona, we have a wall, and it hasn't stopped people or jaguars (real ones) from crossing over from Mexico. If a person or a jaguar sees something on the other side of the fence they want, they're coming over, especially if they're hungry and have been for a long time. People are migratory by nature. If you believe the biologists (I do), we all originated in Africa. We've done a lot of moving around since then. You can pass all the laws you want and call Rush Limbaugh and complain all you want, but until you support some sort of social justice south of the border, you can forget about it working. You might as well tell ducks not to migrate.
Uh; IF laws AGAINST illegal aliens were ENFORCED; like arresting any illegal on the spot and placed on immigration holds, MOST will start leaving the US real quick and the few hard heads left WILL shut up and lay real low.

Low wages on Mexico: that I don't get because that country's birthrate's crashing like a rock which is already starting to cut down the labor supply and maybe the "poor" people there NEED to start demanding their rights.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 02:14 PM
 
11,529 posts, read 5,523,897 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT View Post
This only affects a certain socioeconomic strata, I imagine that can only happen in urban low income neighborhoods, or rural areas both of those areas are pretty much spoken for in terms of blue/red.
Wrong!

I've seen neighborhoods that were traditionally working class and middle class become devastated by illegal immigration. Are you really unaware that this is happening?

It happened in my neighborhood so I have first hand experience. And, yes, my neighborhood was once a solid working and middle class community with good schools and low crime. Read my previous response(post #69) to you on this issue. I went into detail as to how this occurs. Oh, and btw, my neighborhood is in the suburbs.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 437,046 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; IF laws AGAINST illegal aliens were ENFORCED; like arresting any illegal on the spot and placed on immigration holds, MOST will start leaving the US real quick and the few hard heads left WILL shut up and lay real low.

Low wages on Mexico: that I don't get because that country's birthrate's crashing like a rock which is already starting to cut down the labor supply and maybe the "poor" people there NEED to start demanding their rights.
Remember H. Ross Perot and that "huge sucking sound"?

It happened.

But after the jobs got sucked down south, they went from $35 an hour in Detroit to 55 cents an hour in Juarez.

U.S. companies and consumers benefit from this. We can't say, "Not our fault."

Who lost out in the U.S.? Skilled workers without degrees who had good jobs in factories.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 02:21 PM
 
11,529 posts, read 5,523,897 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
Remember H. Ross Perot and that "huge sucking sound"?

It happened.

But after the jobs got sucked down south, they went from $35 an hour in Detroit to 55 cents an hour in Juarez.

U.S. companies and consumers benefit from this. We can't say, "Not our fault."

Who lost out in the U.S.? Skilled workers without degrees who had good jobs in factories.
And now with H1-B abuse, Americans with degrees are losing out, too.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 437,046 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
And now with H1-B abuse, Americans with degrees are losing out, too.
Can't disagree with you there.

There's another thread on city-data right now about studying computer science. Doesn't make as much sense as it used to.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 02:58 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,298,901 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
Remember H. Ross Perot and that "huge sucking sound"?

It happened.

But after the jobs got sucked down south, they went from $35 an hour in Detroit to 55 cents an hour in Juarez.

U.S. companies and consumers benefit from this. We can't say, "Not our fault."

Who lost out in the U.S.? Skilled workers without degrees who had good jobs in factories.
Word was after NAFTA passed; some things that USED to be made in Mexico for their citizens started to be made here in the US cause it was cheaper.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,533 posts, read 1,947,599 times
Reputation: 6785
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT View Post
This only affects a certain socioeconomic strata, I imagine that can only happen in urban low income neighborhoods, or rural areas both of those areas are pretty much spoken for in terms of blue/red.
Nope. They move into working class neighborhoods and drive down quality of life. Those neighborhoods now become crummy and poor. Prices in middle-class neighborhoods go up because now there are fewer nice places with more demand to live there. You basically get Los Angeles.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 03:21 PM
 
1,084 posts, read 533,347 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT View Post
This only affects a certain socioeconomic strata, I imagine that can only happen in urban low income neighborhoods, or rural areas both of those areas are pretty much spoken for in terms of blue/red.

Maybe in the past, however Obama has other ideas.


Obama making bid to diversify wealthy neighborhoods | TheHill
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