U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-30-2015, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,068,763 times
Reputation: 18141

Advertisements

Here, they are buying one family dwellings with several individual's incomes so they can "move on up" and take us "on down". Every room becomes a bedroom. They have 6 or 7 cars per household.

 
Old 12-30-2015, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 436,377 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Word was after NAFTA passed; some things that USED to be made in Mexico for their citizens started to be made here in the US cause it was cheaper.
I'm not sure what you mean here. You can look up a list of large corporations that have maquiladoras along the border. You can also go there and see it with your own eyes. Google is not needed.

What could be made cheaper in the U.S. than in Mexico? Wages, rent, etc. are much cheaper down there.

Anyway, my point was simply this: OP made a point that if conditions are tough, intolerable, whatever, then people will respond. I agree. But what most people ignore is that conditions are intolerable south of the border, and we play a role. That's why people are coming.

There are posts in this thread along the lines of, "My neighborhood's gone to ****." Well, what if everybody in your neighborhood worked for 55 cents an hour? Would you stay? If you did stay, because you loved your country and loved your city, would you tell your kids to stay? That's the problem. People tend to leave when things get bad. They didn't stay in the Dust Bowl, and they won't stay in Mexico and work for 55 cents an hour. It's fine to say, "It's Mexico's problem to fix," but don't come to me when people keep finding ways to cross the border. We have to realize that we are linked to the fortune of other countries, whether we like it or not.

If conditions don't change in Mexico, I think we should drastically increase the number of people we let in legally. It will have two beneficial effects, 1) We can give them a number, know who they are, etc., and 2) They'll go back. Believe it or not, a lot of people stay because they don't want to risk going back and reentry. They send money to their families. if they had a visa and a number, they might work six months each year then go back home, instead of settling.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 04:11 PM
 
11,497 posts, read 5,511,317 times
Reputation: 9869
No one has the right to thumb their noses at our immigration laws---or any country's immigration laws for that matter. Things are tough at home? Well, fight to make them better instead of cutting and running.

Tolerating illegal immigration is a slap in the face to those who obeyed our immigration laws and patiently awaited their turn to come here. Period.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 04:17 PM
 
9,985 posts, read 6,383,652 times
Reputation: 5593
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
Rubio is very, very articulate but, trust me, he is a shill for the establishment and big business. We had him here in Fl and most don't want him back. Do some deep digging and read up on some of the things he did while in office here in florida. He goes which ever the wind blows him and the money is the highest.
You'll have him back, because he'll make the filing deadline in May
and beat Alan Grayson or Patrick Murphy.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 04:24 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
I'm not sure what you mean here. You can look up a list of large corporations that have maquiladoras along the border. You can also go there and see it with your own eyes. Google is not needed.

What could be made cheaper in the U.S. than in Mexico? Wages, rent, etc. are much cheaper down there.

Anyway, my point was simply this: OP made a point that if conditions are tough, intolerable, whatever, then people will respond. I agree. But what most people ignore is that conditions are intolerable south of the border, and we play a role. That's why people are coming.

There are posts in this thread along the lines of, "My neighborhood's gone to ****." Well, what if everybody in your neighborhood worked for 55 cents an hour? Would you stay? If you did stay, because you loved your country and loved your city, would you tell your kids to stay? That's the problem. People tend to leave when things get bad. They didn't stay in the Dust Bowl, and they won't stay in Mexico and work for 55 cents an hour. It's fine to say, "It's Mexico's problem to fix," but don't come to me when people keep finding ways to cross the border. We have to realize that we are linked to the fortune of other countries, whether we like it or not.

If conditions don't change in Mexico, I think we should drastically increase the number of people we let in legally. It will have two beneficial effects, 1) We can give them a number, know who they are, etc., and 2) They'll go back. Believe it or not, a lot of people stay because they don't want to risk going back and reentry. They send money to their families. if they had a visa and a number, they might work six months each year then go back home, instead of settling.
How about catching and DEPORTING any illegal alien "contacted" by LE instead? That WILL drives UP wages and fast because their kind will be scared to death to stay here.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 436,377 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
No one has the right to thumb their noses at our immigration laws---or any country's immigration laws for that matter. Things are tough at home? Well, fight to make them better instead of cutting and running.

Tolerating illegal immigration is a slap in the face to those who obeyed our immigration laws and patiently awaited their turn to come here. Period.
I made the point that the vast majority of people in Latin America don't have the option to come here legally. Their situation is not the same as people who were permitted to come here from Europe a hundred years ago. Believe me, people in Mexico would wait in line and fill out paperwork rather than cross the desert if that were an option. They are dragging their grandmothers, spouses, and little children out into the desert when they could just do the whole thing legally? Yeah, right.

If the point is to complain, fine. But if the point is to get results, you need to think of something more effective than saying that desperate people "should" do whatever you think they should do, maybe act like your grandmother from Italy who waited for a visa (because she had that option) or whatever. Because it just ain't happening. You'll sound good and maybe your buddies will pound their fists on the table along with you and you'll all feel righteous, but people will keep slipping across the border.

What has to happen is that we have to make Mexico economically more like Canada. Immigration is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself which is economic inequality. People should be treated fairly because that's the right thing to do, Jesus said that, but we seem to have decided to take economic advantage of our neighbors to the south. Now there are consequences to that attitude in real life that people don't seem to like. I don't think a wall will work. I think a better bet is to improve conditions economically in Mexico. U.S. corporations and NAFTA have a large role in this. That's a fact.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 06:51 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
I made the point that the vast majority of people in Latin America don't have the option to come here legally. Their situation is not the same as people who were permitted to come here from Europe a hundred years ago. Believe me, people in Mexico would wait in line and fill out paperwork rather than cross the desert if that were an option. They are dragging their grandmothers, spouses, and little children out into the desert when they could just do the whole thing legally? Yeah, right.

If the point is to complain, fine. But if the point is to get results, you need to think of something more effective than saying that desperate people "should" do whatever you think they should do, maybe act like your grandmother from Italy who waited for a visa (because she had that option) or whatever. Because it just ain't happening. You'll sound good and maybe your buddies will pound their fists on the table along with you and you'll all feel righteous, but people will keep slipping across the border.

What has to happen is that we have to make Mexico economically more like Canada. Immigration is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself which is economic inequality. People should be treated fairly because that's the right thing to do, Jesus said that, but we seem to have decided to take economic advantage of our neighbors to the south. Now there are consequences to that attitude in real life that people don't seem to like. I don't think a wall will work. I think a better bet is to improve conditions economically in Mexico. U.S. corporations and NAFTA have a large role in this. That's a fact.
NOT our problem. Period. Let LatAm fix itself; if it means them trashing parts of their "Hispanic" culture and taking on more of the Anglo Saxon culture to do better in 2016, it is what it is.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 07:13 PM
 
31,495 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8357
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
I made the point that the vast majority of people in Latin America don't have the option to come here legally. Their situation is not the same as people who were permitted to come here from Europe a hundred years ago. Believe me, people in Mexico would wait in line and fill out paperwork rather than cross the desert if that were an option. They are dragging their grandmothers, spouses, and little children out into the desert when they could just do the whole thing legally? Yeah, right.

If the point is to complain, fine. But if the point is to get results, you need to think of something more effective than saying that desperate people "should" do whatever you think they should do, maybe act like your grandmother from Italy who waited for a visa (because she had that option) or whatever. Because it just ain't happening. You'll sound good and maybe your buddies will pound their fists on the table along with you and you'll all feel righteous, but people will keep slipping across the border.

What has to happen is that we have to make Mexico economically more like Canada. Immigration is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself which is economic inequality. People should be treated fairly because that's the right thing to do, Jesus said that, but we seem to have decided to take economic advantage of our neighbors to the south. Now there are consequences to that attitude in real life that people don't seem to like. I don't think a wall will work. I think a better bet is to improve conditions economically in Mexico. U.S. corporations and NAFTA have a large role in this. That's a fact.

Why should the vast majority of Latin Americans be able to come here? Are they special? What about the rest of the world's needy that would like to come here? In case you don't know it Mexico and other Latino countries already enjoy the highest quotas to legally migrate here and that doesn't even count their numerous family reunifications on our soil. Their problems aren't the American people's problems and I don't give a hoot who you want to blame for them coming here we have immigration laws and quotas and for good reasons. The American people expect our government to honor them and to enforce our immigration laws. What we need are politicians and a president who will do just that and we will continue this fight until they do.


The Mexican government needs to make their own changes. We can't do it for them. We do treat foreigners fairly so I don't know what you mean by that. NAFTA hurt the American worker also and it needs to end but putting the blame soley on our government makes no sense when they weren't the only ones who signed the dotted line. No, Mexicans and other Latinos need to blame their own governments not the U.S. government for their economic woes and they can makes all the excuses they want but they have no right to violate our immigration laws and the American people and creating hardships for them.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 07:39 PM
 
11,497 posts, read 5,511,317 times
Reputation: 9869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Why should the vast majority of Latin Americans be able to come here? Are they special? What about the rest of the world's needy that would like to come here? In case you don't know it Mexico and other Latino countries already enjoy the highest quotas to legally migrate here and that doesn't even count their numerous family reunifications on our soil. Their problems aren't the American people's problems and I don't give a hoot who you want to blame for them coming here we have immigration laws and quotas and for good reasons. The American people expect our government to honor them and to enforce our immigration laws. What we need are politicians and a president who will do just that and we will continue this fight until they do.


The Mexican government needs to make their own changes. We can't do it for them. We do treat foreigners fairly so I don't know what you mean by that. NAFTA hurt the American worker also and it needs to end but putting the blame soley on our government makes no sense when they weren't the only ones who signed the dotted line. No, Mexicans and other Latinos need to blame their own governments not the U.S. government for their economic woes and they can makes all the excuses they want but they have no right to violate our immigration laws and the American people and creating hardships for them.


Thanks, Oldglory. I couldn't have said it better myself!

We owe illegal aliens nothing. How can anyone think that others have a right to thumb their noses at our immigration laws?

The interesting thing is that the Mexican illegals are not "desperate". Many have admitted to having jobs in Mexico but heard what minimum wage was here and thought that they would be rich. All anyone has to do is look at photos of illegals who were caught sneaking in to realize that none of them were starving to death. If they were starving to death, there would be no way they would make it through a scorching hot desert.
 
Old 12-30-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 436,377 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Why should the vast majority of Latin Americans be able to come here? Are they special? What about the rest of the world's needy that would like to come here? In case you don't know it Mexico and other Latino countries already enjoy the highest quotas to legally migrate here and that doesn't even count their numerous family reunifications on our soil. Their problems aren't the American people's problems and I don't give a hoot who you want to blame for them coming here we have immigration laws and quotas and for good reasons. The American people expect our government to honor them and to enforce our immigration laws. What we need are politicians and a president who will do just that and we will continue this fight until they do.


The Mexican government needs to make their own changes. We can't do it for them. We do treat foreigners fairly so I don't know what you mean by that. NAFTA hurt the American worker also and it needs to end but putting the blame soley on our government makes no sense when they weren't the only ones who signed the dotted line. No, Mexicans and other Latinos need to blame their own governments not the U.S. government for their economic woes and they can makes all the excuses they want but they have no right to violate our immigration laws and the American people and creating hardships for them.
I'm not putting the blame solely on the U.S. government. Has anybody else posting here actually lived in Latin America? I have, and trust me, I don't romanticize it. There's a lot of corruption down there. A lot of bad decision making. The U.S. has a role in Latin America's situation too. How much? I don't know. But some.

I just think that practically, if we're oriented towards results, controlling immigration, then U.S. economic policy has to be part of the solution. I mean, put yourself in the other guy's shoes. If you are working for 55 cents an hour in your town, you're going to leave, and you're not going to care if you're in that position because your mayor is corrupt, and the governor, President of your country, your whole society, etc. Frankly, you're not going to care whose fault it is. All these arguments sound high and mighty on this forum, but the bottom line is, economics are driving the migration. If you're a doctor, you try to treat the cause, not the symptoms.

I'm not sure anybody, left, right, or middle, has a great answer on this issue, but let's at least talk about what the problem is. You can't hold signs at the border, or build a wall, and expect people to stay out, if their circumstances are really, really bad. What would it take for you to uproot your family, drag along your six-year old grandchildren through the Arizona desert, and throw yourself at the mercy of the Mexican government without papers? If you can imagine how bad things would have to get for you to do that, now you have an idea of what is making people come here. Trust me, they are not listening to Donald Trump's logic, or Marco Rubio's, or Hillary Clinton's, or anybody else's. Getting involved in discussions like we are having is the luxury of people who are in a little bit different place in life.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top